Posting styles
Encyclopedia
When a message is replied to in e-mail
, Internet forum
s, or Usenet
, the original can often be included, or "quoted", in a variety of different posting styles.
The main options are interleaved posting (also called inline replying, in which the different parts of the reply follow the relevant parts of the original post), bottom-posting (in which the reply follows the quote) or top-posting (in which the reply precedes the quoted original message). For each of those options, there is also the issue of whether trimming of the original text is allowed, required or preferred.
For a long time the traditional style was to post the answer below as much of the quoted original as was necessary to understand the reply (bottom or inline). Many years later, when email became widespread in business communication, it became a widespread policy to reply above the entire original and leave it untouched below the reply.
While each online community
differs on which styles are appropriate or acceptable, within some communities the use of the "wrong" method risks being seen as a breach of netiquette
, and can provoke vehement response from community regulars.
s, email responses may be received long after the original message was sent, so the original sender may have forgotten, misplaced or deleted the original. Many email reading programs (mail user agents) encourage this behavior by automatically including a copy of the original message in the reply editing window.
Quoted text from previous messages is usually distinguished in some way from the new (reply) text. At a minimum, the two parts are given different indentation
. In the example below, the first line is the original message, the second line is the reply:
The project meeting will be at 14:00. --Mary
Mary, I cannot attend: my plane leaves at 15:30 --Joe.
Alternatively, special delimiter lines may be used:
Hey Joe, Paris is in France, not England. --Mary
--- original message ---
You just had a call from England, from Paris I think. --Joe
--- end of original message ---
For extra clarity, blank lines may also be inserted between the two parts. When using an email medium that supports text markup (such as HTML or RTF), the previous text may be indicated by a distinctive font and/or color:
The meeting has been postponed to next Friday. --Mary
Has the deadline for the report been moved too? --Joe
A common convention in plain-text email is to prefix each line of the quoted text with a distinctive character or string. As of 2010 (and for many years previously), the greater-than sign
(">", the canonical prefix) is almost universally used; but other characters such as the ASCII
vertical bar
character ("|") have been used as well, sometimes with one or more spaces inserted before or after the quoted text marker.
There is no standard declaring one quote-prefix to be "right" and others to be "wrong", but some standards depend on conventional quoting. The (unpublished) "son-of-1036" draft recommends ">" as the quote-prefix; RFC 3676 depends on it and considers ">> " and "> > " to be semantically different. That is, ">> " has a quote-depth of two, while "> > " has a quote-depth of one, quoting a line starting with ">". Most e-mail clients treat both alternatives equivalently, however.
The convention of quoting was common in Usenet
newsgroups by 1990, and is supported by many popular email interfaces
, either by default or as a user-settable option. In Microsoft Outlook
, for instance, this option is labeled "prefix each line of the original". Besides inserting markers automatically in quoted lines, some interfaces assume that a line starting with a ">" character or similar is quoted text, and will automatically display it in a distinctive font or color:
> How is the report coming? --Mary
It will be on your desk by noon. --Joe
Sometimes the insertion of a quoted line marker will cause one original line to be folded as two lines in the reply, and the continuation line may not have the proper marker. To avoid ambiguity in such cases, one may consider inserting blank lines after each block of quoted text:
>The board is asking again for the sales data. We really must
provide
> them with some figures. How is the report coming? --Mary
It will be on your desk by noon. --Joe
Quoted line markers are most commonly used in plain-text messages. In HTML messages, other devices may be used to indicate quoted text, such as HTML indentation element
s like blockquote or dl.
>>> How is the report coming? --Mary
>>
>> It will be on your desk by noon. --Joe
>
> Sorry Joe, I need it by 11:00 at the latest. --Mary
OK, but it will be missing this month's figures. --Joe
If the discussion is between two parties only, then an even number of markers (including zero) identifies text written by the sender, while an odd number of markers identifies text by the recipient. (In the above example even numbers are Joe's text and odd number are Mary's.)
No problem. 6pm it is then. --Jim
At 10.01am Wednesday, Danny wrote:
> Whoa! I need to email a report at 5:30.
> Could you push it back an hour? --Danny
>
> At 9.40am Wednesday, Jim wrote:
>
>> I'm going to suspend the mail service for approx. thirty
>> minutes tonight, starting at 5pm. --Jim
In HTML messages, <blockquote> or <dl> elements may be nested to achieve the same effect.
Nancy wrote:
> Peter wrote:
>> When will we have the performance figures?
> The tests will be completed next week.
Peter wrote:
> Mary wrote:
>> We should meet today to discuss the marketing strategy.
> Better wait, we do not have the West Coast sales data yet.
I agree with Peter. We need the sales data and also Nancy's
performance figures. Let's meet next Friday after lunch.
This reply quotes two messages, one by Nancy (itself a reply to Peter) and one by Peter (itself a reply to Mary).
Many mail agents will add these attribution lines automatically to the top of the quoted material. Note that a newly-added attribution line should not get the quotation marker, since it is not part of the quoted text; so that the level indicator of the attribution line is always one less than the corresponding text. Doing otherwise may confuse the reader and also e-mail interfaces that choose the text color according to the number of leading markers.
Instead of an attribution line, one may indicate the author by a comment in brackets, at the beginning of the quotation:
>> [Peter:] When will we have the performance figures?
> [Nancy:] The tests will be completed next week.
>> [Mary:] We should meet today to discuss the marketing strategy.
> [Peter:] Better wait, we do not have the West Coast sales data yet.
I agree with Peter. We need the sales data and Nancy's
performance figures. Let's meet next Friday after lunch.
Another alternative, used in Fidonet
and some mail user agents, is to place the initials of the author before the quoting marker. This may be used with or without attribution lines:
Nancy wrote:
N> Peter wrote:
P>> When will we have the performance figures?
N> The tests will be completed next week.
Peter wrote:
P> Mary wrote:
M>> We should meet today to discuss the marketing strategy.
P> Better wait, we do not have the West Coast sales data yet.
I agree with Peter. We need the sales data and also Nancy's
performance figures. Let's meet next Friday after lunch.
discussions, quoted text from the original message is often trimmed so as to leave only the parts that are relevant to the reply — or only a reminder thereof. This practice is sometimes called "trim-posting" or "edited posting", and is recommended by some manuals of posting etiquette.
Sometimes an indicator of deleted text is given, usually in the form of a square bracketed tag as: "[snipped]", "[trimmed]", or simply "[...]". The text that is retained may be edited to some extent, e.g. by re-folding the lines. For example, if the original message was
This is a reminder that the project meeting which was canceled
last week will be held today in the 3rd floor conference room at
14:30 sharp. Everybody must attend. --Mary
the reply may be
> the project meeting [...] will be held today in the 3rd floor
> conference room
Mary, be sure to check the mikes in that room. --Joe
or even just
> 3rd floor conference room
Mary, be sure to check the mikes in that room --Joe
Deleted text may also be replaced by a summary in brackets:
I disagree. The darker tone works well, once one understands
the two are aimed at different audiences.
Automatically included text (such as signature block
s, free e-mail service ads, and corporate disclaimers) are more likely to be deleted, usually without ellipses, than manually written text. Some posters may delete any parts of the original message that they are not replying to. Some posters delete only parts dealing with issues that they see as "closed", and leave any parts that, in their opinion, deserve further discussion or will be replied to in a later message.
In particular, when replying to a message that already included quoted text, one should consider whether that quoted material is still relevant. For example:
>> [Mary:] Shall we meet this afternoon to discuss the
>> marketing strategy?
>
> [Peter:] Perhaps, if we can get all the information we need.
> Do we have the West Coast sales data yet?
The LA office just sent them in.
Joe
The quote from Mary's message is relevant to Peter's reply, but not to Joe's reply. The latter could have been trimmed to
> [Peter:] Do we have the West Coast sales data yet?
The LA office just sent them in.
Joe
On the other hand, in some situations, any trimming or editing of the original message may be inappropriate. For example, if the reply is being copied to a third person who did not see the original message, it may be advisable to quote it in full; otherwise the trimmed message may be misinterpreted by the new recipient, for lack of context.
Also, when replying to a customer or supplier, it may be advisable to quote the original message in its entirety, in case the other party somehow failed to keep a copy of it.
I have been following the discussion about the new product line. Here are my thoughts.
Joe wrote:
> Will our prices be competitive?
That may not be a problem for now, we still have a quality edge.
> We do not have enough trained people on the West Coast. We have many
> new employees but they do not know our products yet.
We can bring them here for a crash training course.
Mary wrote:
> We still do not have a clear marketing plan.
Peter, would you take charge of that? Let me know if you need help.
On the whole, I am quite optimistic. It looks like we will be shipping
the basic system before the end of this quarter.
Nancy
The interleaved reply style can also be combined with top-posting: selected points are quoted and replied to, as above, and then a full copy of the original message is appended.
> Can you present your report an hour later?
Yes I can. The summary will be sent no later than 5pm.
Jim
At 10.01am Wednesday, Danny wrote:
>> 2.00pm: Present report
> Jim, I have a meeting at that time. Can you present your report an hour later?
>
>> 4.30pm: Send out summary of feedback
> Also if you do the above, this may need to happen later too.
> Danny
>
> At 9.40am Wednesday, Jim wrote:
>> My schedule for today will be:
>> 10.00am: Gather data for report
>> 2.00pm: Present report to team
>> 4.30pm: Send out summary of feedback
>> Jim
Interleaving was the predominant reply style in the Usenet
discussion lists, years before the existence of the WWW and the spread of e-mail
and the Internet
outside the academic community.
Interleaving was also common originally in e-mail, because many internet users had been exposed to Usenet newsgroups and other Internet forum
s, where it is still used. The style became less common for email after the opening of the internet to commercial and non-academic personal use. One possible reason is the large number of casual e-mail users that entered the scene at that time. Another possible reason is the inadequate support provided by the reply function of some webmail readers, which either do not automatically insert a copy of the original message into the reply, or do so without any quoting prefix level indicators. Finally, most forums, wiki discussion pages, and blog
s (such as Slashdot
) essentially impose the bottom-post format, by displaying all recent messages in chronological order.
No problem. 6pm it is then.
Jim
-------- Original Message --------
From: Danny
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:01 AM
To: Jim
Subject: RE: Job
Whoa! Hold on. I have a job scheduled at 5:30 which mails out
a report to key tech staff. Could you push it back an hour?
Danny
-------- Original Message --------
From: Jim
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:40 AM
To: Danny
Subject: Job
I'm going to suspend the mail service for approx. thirty
minutes tonight, starting at 5pm, to install some updates
and important fixes.
Jim
Top-posting preserves an unmodified transcript of the entire conversation, with the latest information immediately visible at the top. This has obvious advantages for business correspondence, where an e-mail thread can serve as an official record, though excessive indentation could hinder printing or readability. Also, if the participants have different stature (e.g. manager/employee or consultant/client), it may be considered impolite to cut apart a person's words and interject replies without the full context.
By contrast, the most vocal objections to top-posting seem to come from persons who first went online in the earlier days of Usenet
, when discussions were informal and everyone was an equal. Until the mid-90s, top-posting was unknown and interleaved posting the standard that all net.newcomers had to learn. Among the most vehement communities are those in the Usenet comp.lang hierarchy, especially comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c++. Top-posting is more tolerated on the alt hierarchy. Newer online participants, especially those with limited experience of Usenet, tend to be less sensitive to arguments about posting style.
Users of mobile devices
, like Smartphones
, are encouraged to use top-posting because the devices may only download the beginning of a message for viewing. The rest of the message is only retrieved when needed, which takes additional download time. Putting the relevant content at the beginning of the message requires less bandwidth, less time, and less scrolling for the Blackberry user.
Top-posting is a natural consequence of the behavior of the "reply" function in many current e-mail readers, such as Microsoft Outlook
, Gmail
, and others. By default, these programs insert into the reply message a copy of the original message (without headers and often without any extra indentation or quotation markers), and position the editing cursor
above it. Moreover, a bug present on most flavours of Microsoft Outlook caused the quotation markers to be lost when replying in plain text to a message that was originally sent in HTML/RTF.
For these and possibly other reasons, many users seem to accept top-posting as the "standard" reply style.
Partially because of Microsoft's influence, top-posting is very common on mailing list
s and in personal e-mail.
Top-posting has always been the standard format for forwarding a message to a third party, in which case the comments at the top (if any) are a "cover note" for the recipient.
At 10.01am Wednesday, Danny wrote:
> At 9.40am Wednesday, Jim wrote:
>> I'm going to suspend the mail service for approx. thirty
>> minutes tonight, starting at 5pm, to install some updates
>> and important fixes.
> Whoa! Hold on. I have a job scheduled at 5:30 which mails out
> a report to key tech staff. Could you push it back an hour?
>
> By the way, which systems will be updated? I had some network
> problems after last week's update. Will I have to reboot?
No problems. 6pm it is then.
Basically, I will update our WWW server and firewall.
No, you won't have to reboot.
Bottom-posting, like inline replies, encourages posters to trim the original message as much as possible, so that readers are not forced to scroll past irrelevant text, or text that they have already seen in the original message:
At 10.01am Wednesday, Danny wrote:
> Could you push it back an hour?
> [...] which systems will be updated?
> [...] Will I have to reboot?
No problems. 6pm it is then.
Basically, I will update our WWW server and firewall.
No, you won't have to reboot.
The interleaved reply style requires the most work by the author of the reply, but keeps the quotes and their replies close to each other and in logical reading order and encourages trimming of the quoted material to the bare minimum. This style makes it easier for readers to identify the points of the original message that are being replied to; in particular, whether the reply misunderstood or ignored some point of the original text. It also gives the sender freedom to arrange the quoted parts in any order, and to provide a single comment to quotations from two or more separate messages, even if these did not include each other.
Top- and bottom-posting are sometimes compared to traditional written correspondence in that the response is a single continuous text, and the whole original is appended only to clarify which letter is being replied to. Customer service
e-mail practices, in particular, often require that all points be addressed in a clear manner without quoting, while the original e-mail message may be included as an attachment. Including the whole original message may be necessary also when a new correspondent is included in an ongoing discussion. Especially in business correspondence, an entire message thread may need to be forwarded to a third party for handling or discussion. On the other hand, in environments where the entire discussion is accessible to new readers (such as newsgroup
s or online forums), full inclusion of previous messages is inappropriate; if quoting is necessary, the interleaved style is probably best.
If the original message is to be quoted in full, for any reason, bottom-posting is usually the most appropriate format — because it preserves the logical order of the replies and is consistent with the Western reading direction from top to bottom.
According to Netiquette Guidelines (RFC 1855), a message should begin with an abbreviated summary; i.e. a post should begin with a paraphrasing and/or selective quoting, not "top" nor "bottom" posting. Specifically, it says:
If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
enough text of the original to give a context. This will make
sure readers understand when they start to read your response.
Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the
postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a
response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context
helps everyone. But do not include the entire original!
Interleaved reply combined with top-posting combines the advantages of both styles. However this also results in some portions of the original message being quoted twice, which takes up extra space and may confuse the reader.
In forwarding it is customary to include the entire original message (including all headers) as a MIME
attachment, while in top-posted replies these are often trimmed or replaced by an attribution line. An untrimmed quoted message is a weaker form of transcript, as key pieces of meta information
are destroyed. (This is why an ISP
's Postmaster
will typically insist on a forwarded copy of any problematic e-mail, rather than a quote.) These forwarded messages are displayed in the same way as top-posting in some mail clients.
Top-posting is viewed as seriously destructive to mailing-list
digests, where multiple levels of top-posting are difficult to skip. The worst case would be top-posting while including an entire digest as the original message.
Some believe that "top-posting" is appropriate for interpersonal e-mail, but inline posting should always be applied to threaded discussions such as newsgroups.
This example is occasionally used in mailing lists to mock and discourage top-posting:
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Bottom-posting preserves the logical order of the replies and is consistent with the Western reading direction from top to bottom.
One argument against bottom-posting is that scrolling down through a post to find a reply is inconvenient, especially for short replies to long messages, and many inexperienced computer users may not know that they need to scroll down to find a reply to their query. When sending an untrimmed bottom posted message, one might indicate inline replies with a notice at the top such as "I have replied below." However, as many modern mail programs are capable of displaying different levels of quotation with different colors (as seen here), this is not so much of an issue any more. Another good method to indicate that there is more reply text still to come is to always end your text with a signature line. Then the reader will know to continue to read until your signature line appears. This method is particularly polite and useful when using the inline reply method, since it tells the reader that your response is complete at the point where your signature line appears.
Yahoo! does not have the option "Quote the text of the original message" in Mail Classic, but this setting is retained after turning it on in All-New Mail and then switching back to Mail Classic. Inline replying is broken in Microsoft Outlook, which despite choosing the setting to prefix each line of the original with the "greater-than" character (>) produces a blue line that makes answers inserted between quotes of an HTML email look like part of the original. The only workaround is to use the setting "read all standard mail in plain text".
E-mail
Electronic mail, commonly known as email or e-mail, is a method of exchanging digital messages from an author to one or more recipients. Modern email operates across the Internet or other computer networks. Some early email systems required that the author and the recipient both be online at the...
, Internet forum
Internet forum
An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages. They differ from chat rooms in that messages are at least temporarily archived...
s, or Usenet
Usenet
Usenet is a worldwide distributed Internet discussion system. It developed from the general purpose UUCP architecture of the same name.Duke University graduate students Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis conceived the idea in 1979 and it was established in 1980...
, the original can often be included, or "quoted", in a variety of different posting styles.
The main options are interleaved posting (also called inline replying, in which the different parts of the reply follow the relevant parts of the original post), bottom-posting (in which the reply follows the quote) or top-posting (in which the reply precedes the quoted original message). For each of those options, there is also the issue of whether trimming of the original text is allowed, required or preferred.
For a long time the traditional style was to post the answer below as much of the quoted original as was necessary to understand the reply (bottom or inline). Many years later, when email became widespread in business communication, it became a widespread policy to reply above the entire original and leave it untouched below the reply.
While each online community
Virtual community
A virtual community is a social network of individuals who interact through specific media, potentially crossing geographical and political boundaries in order to pursue mutual interests or goals...
differs on which styles are appropriate or acceptable, within some communities the use of the "wrong" method risks being seen as a breach of netiquette
Netiquette
Netiquette is a set of social conventions that facilitate interaction over networks, ranging from Usenet and mailing lists to blogs and forums. These rules were described in IETF RFC 1855. However, like many Internet phenomena, the concept and its application remain in a state of flux, and vary...
, and can provoke vehement response from community regulars.
Quoting previous messages
In an e-mail reply, it is sometimes appropriate to include a full or partial copy of the original message that is being replied to. As opposed to in-person conversations and Internet chatOnline chat
Online chat may refer to any kind of communication over the Internet, that offers an instantaneous transmission of text-based messages from sender to receiver, hence the delay for visual access to the sent message shall not hamper the flow of communications in any of the directions...
s, email responses may be received long after the original message was sent, so the original sender may have forgotten, misplaced or deleted the original. Many email reading programs (mail user agents) encourage this behavior by automatically including a copy of the original message in the reply editing window.
Quoted text from previous messages is usually distinguished in some way from the new (reply) text. At a minimum, the two parts are given different indentation
Indentation
An indentation may refer to:* A notch, or deep recesses; for instance in a coastline, or a carving in rock* The placement of text farther to the right to separate it from surrounding text....
. In the example below, the first line is the original message, the second line is the reply:
The project meeting will be at 14:00. --Mary
Mary, I cannot attend: my plane leaves at 15:30 --Joe.
Alternatively, special delimiter lines may be used:
Hey Joe, Paris is in France, not England. --Mary
--- original message ---
You just had a call from England, from Paris I think. --Joe
--- end of original message ---
For extra clarity, blank lines may also be inserted between the two parts. When using an email medium that supports text markup (such as HTML or RTF), the previous text may be indicated by a distinctive font and/or color:
The meeting has been postponed to next Friday. --Mary
Has the deadline for the report been moved too? --Joe
Quoted line prefix
Greater-than sign
-Computing:The greater-than sign is an original ASCII character .-Angle brackets:The greater-than sign is used for an approximation of the closing angle bracket . ASCII does not have angular brackets.-Programming language:...
(">", the canonical prefix) is almost universally used; but other characters such as the ASCII
ASCII
The American Standard Code for Information Interchange is a character-encoding scheme based on the ordering of the English alphabet. ASCII codes represent text in computers, communications equipment, and other devices that use text...
vertical bar
Vertical bar
The vertical bar is a character with various uses in mathematics, where it can be used to represent absolute value, among others; in computing and programming and in general typography, as a divider not unlike the interpunct...
character ("|") have been used as well, sometimes with one or more spaces inserted before or after the quoted text marker.
There is no standard declaring one quote-prefix to be "right" and others to be "wrong", but some standards depend on conventional quoting. The (unpublished) "son-of-1036" draft recommends ">" as the quote-prefix; RFC 3676 depends on it and considers ">> " and "> > " to be semantically different. That is, ">> " has a quote-depth of two, while "> > " has a quote-depth of one, quoting a line starting with ">". Most e-mail clients treat both alternatives equivalently, however.
The convention of quoting was common in Usenet
Usenet
Usenet is a worldwide distributed Internet discussion system. It developed from the general purpose UUCP architecture of the same name.Duke University graduate students Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis conceived the idea in 1979 and it was established in 1980...
newsgroups by 1990, and is supported by many popular email interfaces
User agent
In computing, a user agent is a client application implementing a network protocol used in communications within a client–server distributed computing system...
, either by default or as a user-settable option. In Microsoft Outlook
Microsoft Outlook
Microsoft Outlook is a personal information manager from Microsoft, available both as a separate application as well as a part of the Microsoft Office suite...
, for instance, this option is labeled "prefix each line of the original". Besides inserting markers automatically in quoted lines, some interfaces assume that a line starting with a ">" character or similar is quoted text, and will automatically display it in a distinctive font or color:
> How is the report coming? --Mary
It will be on your desk by noon. --Joe
Sometimes the insertion of a quoted line marker will cause one original line to be folded as two lines in the reply, and the continuation line may not have the proper marker. To avoid ambiguity in such cases, one may consider inserting blank lines after each block of quoted text:
>The board is asking again for the sales data. We really must
provide
> them with some figures. How is the report coming? --Mary
It will be on your desk by noon. --Joe
Quoted line markers are most commonly used in plain-text messages. In HTML messages, other devices may be used to indicate quoted text, such as HTML indentation element
HTML element
An HTML element is an individual component of an HTML document. HTML documents are composed of a tree of HTML elements and other nodes, such as text nodes. Each element can have attributes specified. Elements can also have content, including other elements and text. HTML elements represent...
s like blockquote or dl.
Reply level indication
A message often includes text from two or more messages exchanged in previous rounds of a long discussion. If an additional quotation marker is inserted at every round, without removing any existing markers, the number of markers at the beginning of each line will show the "level" of the reply, that is, how many rounds have occurred since that line was written. These accumulated markers are usually sufficient to distinguish the parts that came from each message. Some email interfaces recognize this convention and automatically render each level in a different color. For example:>>> How is the report coming? --Mary
>>
>> It will be on your desk by noon. --Joe
>
> Sorry Joe, I need it by 11:00 at the latest. --Mary
OK, but it will be missing this month's figures. --Joe
If the discussion is between two parties only, then an even number of markers (including zero) identifies text written by the sender, while an odd number of markers identifies text by the recipient. (In the above example even numbers are Joe's text and odd number are Mary's.)
No problem. 6pm it is then. --Jim
At 10.01am Wednesday, Danny wrote:
> Whoa! I need to email a report at 5:30.
> Could you push it back an hour? --Danny
>
> At 9.40am Wednesday, Jim wrote:
>
>> I'm going to suspend the mail service for approx. thirty
>> minutes tonight, starting at 5pm. --Jim
In HTML messages, <blockquote> or <dl> elements may be nested to achieve the same effect.
Attribution lines
Quoted material is often preceded by an attribution line that identifies its author. These lines are particularly helpful in discussions between multiple parties. For example:Nancy wrote:
> Peter wrote:
>> When will we have the performance figures?
> The tests will be completed next week.
Peter wrote:
> Mary wrote:
>> We should meet today to discuss the marketing strategy.
> Better wait, we do not have the West Coast sales data yet.
I agree with Peter. We need the sales data and also Nancy's
performance figures. Let's meet next Friday after lunch.
This reply quotes two messages, one by Nancy (itself a reply to Peter) and one by Peter (itself a reply to Mary).
Many mail agents will add these attribution lines automatically to the top of the quoted material. Note that a newly-added attribution line should not get the quotation marker, since it is not part of the quoted text; so that the level indicator of the attribution line is always one less than the corresponding text. Doing otherwise may confuse the reader and also e-mail interfaces that choose the text color according to the number of leading markers.
Instead of an attribution line, one may indicate the author by a comment in brackets, at the beginning of the quotation:
>> [Peter:] When will we have the performance figures?
> [Nancy:] The tests will be completed next week.
>> [Mary:] We should meet today to discuss the marketing strategy.
> [Peter:] Better wait, we do not have the West Coast sales data yet.
I agree with Peter. We need the sales data and Nancy's
performance figures. Let's meet next Friday after lunch.
Another alternative, used in Fidonet
FidoNet
FidoNet is a worldwide computer network that is used for communication between bulletin board systems. It was most popular in the early to mid 1990s, prior to the introduction of easy and affordable access to the Internet...
and some mail user agents, is to place the initials of the author before the quoting marker. This may be used with or without attribution lines:
Nancy wrote:
N> Peter wrote:
P>> When will we have the performance figures?
N> The tests will be completed next week.
Peter wrote:
P> Mary wrote:
M>> We should meet today to discuss the marketing strategy.
P> Better wait, we do not have the West Coast sales data yet.
I agree with Peter. We need the sales data and also Nancy's
performance figures. Let's meet next Friday after lunch.
Trimming and reformatting
When replying to long discussions, particularly in newsgroupNewsgroup
A usenet newsgroup is a repository usually within the Usenet system, for messages posted from many users in different locations. The term may be confusing to some, because it is usually a discussion group. Newsgroups are technically distinct from, but functionally similar to, discussion forums on...
discussions, quoted text from the original message is often trimmed so as to leave only the parts that are relevant to the reply — or only a reminder thereof. This practice is sometimes called "trim-posting" or "edited posting", and is recommended by some manuals of posting etiquette.
Sometimes an indicator of deleted text is given, usually in the form of a square bracketed tag as: "[snipped]", "[trimmed]", or simply "[...]". The text that is retained may be edited to some extent, e.g. by re-folding the lines. For example, if the original message was
This is a reminder that the project meeting which was canceled
last week will be held today in the 3rd floor conference room at
14:30 sharp. Everybody must attend. --Mary
the reply may be
> the project meeting [...] will be held today in the 3rd floor
> conference room
Mary, be sure to check the mikes in that room. --Joe
or even just
> 3rd floor conference room
Mary, be sure to check the mikes in that room --Joe
Deleted text may also be replaced by a summary in brackets:
I disagree. The darker tone works well, once one understands
the two are aimed at different audiences.
Automatically included text (such as signature block
Signature block
A signature block is a block of text automatically appended at the bottom of an e-mail message, Usenet article, or forum post. This has the effect of "signing off" the message and in a reply message of indicating that no more response follows...
s, free e-mail service ads, and corporate disclaimers) are more likely to be deleted, usually without ellipses, than manually written text. Some posters may delete any parts of the original message that they are not replying to. Some posters delete only parts dealing with issues that they see as "closed", and leave any parts that, in their opinion, deserve further discussion or will be replied to in a later message.
How much to trim
Some style guides recommend that, as a general rule, quoted material in replies should be trimmed or summarized as much as possible, keeping only the parts that are necessary to make the readers understand the replies. That of course depends on how much the readers can be assumed to know about the discussion. For personal e-mail, in particular, the subject line is often sufficient, and no quoting is necessary; unless one is replying to only some points of a long message.In particular, when replying to a message that already included quoted text, one should consider whether that quoted material is still relevant. For example:
>> [Mary:] Shall we meet this afternoon to discuss the
>> marketing strategy?
>
> [Peter:] Perhaps, if we can get all the information we need.
> Do we have the West Coast sales data yet?
The LA office just sent them in.
Joe
The quote from Mary's message is relevant to Peter's reply, but not to Joe's reply. The latter could have been trimmed to
> [Peter:] Do we have the West Coast sales data yet?
The LA office just sent them in.
Joe
On the other hand, in some situations, any trimming or editing of the original message may be inappropriate. For example, if the reply is being copied to a third person who did not see the original message, it may be advisable to quote it in full; otherwise the trimmed message may be misinterpreted by the new recipient, for lack of context.
Also, when replying to a customer or supplier, it may be advisable to quote the original message in its entirety, in case the other party somehow failed to keep a copy of it.
Interleaved style
In the interleaved reply style (also called "inline reply", "point-by-point rebuttal", or, sometimes, "bottom posting"), the original message is broken into two or more sections, each followed by a specific reply or comment. A reply in inline style may also include some top-posted or bottom-posted comments that apply to the whole reply message, rather than to a specific point. For example:I have been following the discussion about the new product line. Here are my thoughts.
Joe wrote:
> Will our prices be competitive?
That may not be a problem for now, we still have a quality edge.
> We do not have enough trained people on the West Coast. We have many
> new employees but they do not know our products yet.
We can bring them here for a crash training course.
Mary wrote:
> We still do not have a clear marketing plan.
Peter, would you take charge of that? Let me know if you need help.
On the whole, I am quite optimistic. It looks like we will be shipping
the basic system before the end of this quarter.
Nancy
The interleaved reply style can also be combined with top-posting: selected points are quoted and replied to, as above, and then a full copy of the original message is appended.
> Can you present your report an hour later?
Yes I can. The summary will be sent no later than 5pm.
Jim
At 10.01am Wednesday, Danny wrote:
>> 2.00pm: Present report
> Jim, I have a meeting at that time. Can you present your report an hour later?
>
>> 4.30pm: Send out summary of feedback
> Also if you do the above, this may need to happen later too.
> Danny
>
> At 9.40am Wednesday, Jim wrote:
>> My schedule for today will be:
>> 10.00am: Gather data for report
>> 2.00pm: Present report to team
>> 4.30pm: Send out summary of feedback
>> Jim
Interleaving was the predominant reply style in the Usenet
Usenet
Usenet is a worldwide distributed Internet discussion system. It developed from the general purpose UUCP architecture of the same name.Duke University graduate students Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis conceived the idea in 1979 and it was established in 1980...
discussion lists, years before the existence of the WWW and the spread of e-mail
E-mail
Electronic mail, commonly known as email or e-mail, is a method of exchanging digital messages from an author to one or more recipients. Modern email operates across the Internet or other computer networks. Some early email systems required that the author and the recipient both be online at the...
and the Internet
Internet
The Internet is a global system of interconnected computer networks that use the standard Internet protocol suite to serve billions of users worldwide...
outside the academic community.
Interleaving was also common originally in e-mail, because many internet users had been exposed to Usenet newsgroups and other Internet forum
Internet forum
An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages. They differ from chat rooms in that messages are at least temporarily archived...
s, where it is still used. The style became less common for email after the opening of the internet to commercial and non-academic personal use. One possible reason is the large number of casual e-mail users that entered the scene at that time. Another possible reason is the inadequate support provided by the reply function of some webmail readers, which either do not automatically insert a copy of the original message into the reply, or do so without any quoting prefix level indicators. Finally, most forums, wiki discussion pages, and blog
Blog
A blog is a type of website or part of a website supposed to be updated with new content from time to time. Blogs are usually maintained by an individual with regular entries of commentary, descriptions of events, or other material such as graphics or video. Entries are commonly displayed in...
s (such as Slashdot
Slashdot
Slashdot is a technology-related news website owned by Geeknet, Inc. The site, which bills itself as "News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters", features user-submitted and ‑evaluated current affairs news stories about science- and technology-related topics. Each story has a comments section...
) essentially impose the bottom-post format, by displaying all recent messages in chronological order.
Top-posting
In top-posting style, the original message is included verbatim, with the reply above it. It is sometimes referred to by the term TOFU, an acronym for "Text Over, Fullquote Under". Example:No problem. 6pm it is then.
Jim
-------- Original Message --------
From: Danny
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:01 AM
To: Jim
Subject: RE: Job
Whoa! Hold on. I have a job scheduled at 5:30 which mails out
a report to key tech staff. Could you push it back an hour?
Danny
-------- Original Message --------
From: Jim
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:40 AM
To: Danny
Subject: Job
I'm going to suspend the mail service for approx. thirty
minutes tonight, starting at 5pm, to install some updates
and important fixes.
Jim
Top-posting preserves an unmodified transcript of the entire conversation, with the latest information immediately visible at the top. This has obvious advantages for business correspondence, where an e-mail thread can serve as an official record, though excessive indentation could hinder printing or readability. Also, if the participants have different stature (e.g. manager/employee or consultant/client), it may be considered impolite to cut apart a person's words and interject replies without the full context.
By contrast, the most vocal objections to top-posting seem to come from persons who first went online in the earlier days of Usenet
Usenet
Usenet is a worldwide distributed Internet discussion system. It developed from the general purpose UUCP architecture of the same name.Duke University graduate students Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis conceived the idea in 1979 and it was established in 1980...
, when discussions were informal and everyone was an equal. Until the mid-90s, top-posting was unknown and interleaved posting the standard that all net.newcomers had to learn. Among the most vehement communities are those in the Usenet comp.lang hierarchy, especially comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c++. Top-posting is more tolerated on the alt hierarchy. Newer online participants, especially those with limited experience of Usenet, tend to be less sensitive to arguments about posting style.
Users of mobile devices
Handheld device
A mobile device is a small, hand-held computing device, typically having a display screen with touch input and/or a miniature keyboard and less than . Early pocket sized ones were joined in the late 2000s by larger but otherwise similar tablet computers...
, like Smartphones
Smartphone
A smartphone is a high-end mobile phone built on a mobile computing platform, with more advanced computing ability and connectivity than a contemporary feature phone. The first smartphones were devices that mainly combined the functions of a personal digital assistant and a mobile phone or camera...
, are encouraged to use top-posting because the devices may only download the beginning of a message for viewing. The rest of the message is only retrieved when needed, which takes additional download time. Putting the relevant content at the beginning of the message requires less bandwidth, less time, and less scrolling for the Blackberry user.
Top-posting is a natural consequence of the behavior of the "reply" function in many current e-mail readers, such as Microsoft Outlook
Microsoft Outlook
Microsoft Outlook is a personal information manager from Microsoft, available both as a separate application as well as a part of the Microsoft Office suite...
, Gmail
Gmail
Gmail is a free, advertising-supported email service provided by Google. Users may access Gmail as secure webmail, as well via POP3 or IMAP protocols. Gmail was launched as an invitation-only beta release on April 1, 2004 and it became available to the general public on February 7, 2007, though...
, and others. By default, these programs insert into the reply message a copy of the original message (without headers and often without any extra indentation or quotation markers), and position the editing cursor
Cursor (computers)
In computing, a cursor is an indicator used to show the position on a computer monitor or other display device that will respond to input from a text input or pointing device. The flashing text cursor may be referred to as a caret in some cases...
above it. Moreover, a bug present on most flavours of Microsoft Outlook caused the quotation markers to be lost when replying in plain text to a message that was originally sent in HTML/RTF.
For these and possibly other reasons, many users seem to accept top-posting as the "standard" reply style.
Partially because of Microsoft's influence, top-posting is very common on mailing list
Electronic mailing list
An electronic mailing list is a special usage of email that allows for widespread distribution of information to many Internet users. It is similar to a traditional mailing list — a list of names and addresses — as might be kept by an organization for sending publications to...
s and in personal e-mail.
Top-posting has always been the standard format for forwarding a message to a third party, in which case the comments at the top (if any) are a "cover note" for the recipient.
Bottom-posting
In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or partial copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is sometimes used for inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are the same when only one point is being replied to.At 10.01am Wednesday, Danny wrote:
> At 9.40am Wednesday, Jim wrote:
>> I'm going to suspend the mail service for approx. thirty
>> minutes tonight, starting at 5pm, to install some updates
>> and important fixes.
> Whoa! Hold on. I have a job scheduled at 5:30 which mails out
> a report to key tech staff. Could you push it back an hour?
>
> By the way, which systems will be updated? I had some network
> problems after last week's update. Will I have to reboot?
No problems. 6pm it is then.
Basically, I will update our WWW server and firewall.
No, you won't have to reboot.
Bottom-posting, like inline replies, encourages posters to trim the original message as much as possible, so that readers are not forced to scroll past irrelevant text, or text that they have already seen in the original message:
At 10.01am Wednesday, Danny wrote:
> Could you push it back an hour?
> [...] which systems will be updated?
> [...] Will I have to reboot?
No problems. 6pm it is then.
Basically, I will update our WWW server and firewall.
No, you won't have to reboot.
Choosing the proper posting style
The choice between top or bottom posting generally depends on the forum and on the nature of the message. Some forums (such as personal e-mail) are quite tolerant, in which case the proper style is dictated by taste and effectiveness. In any case one should consider whether the reply will be easily read by the intended recipient(s). Their e-mail interfaces may have different rules for handling quoted line markers and long lines, so a reply that looks readable in one's screen may be jumbled and incorrectly colored on theirs. Blank lines and judicious trimming of the original text may help avoid ambiguity.The interleaved reply style requires the most work by the author of the reply, but keeps the quotes and their replies close to each other and in logical reading order and encourages trimming of the quoted material to the bare minimum. This style makes it easier for readers to identify the points of the original message that are being replied to; in particular, whether the reply misunderstood or ignored some point of the original text. It also gives the sender freedom to arrange the quoted parts in any order, and to provide a single comment to quotations from two or more separate messages, even if these did not include each other.
Top- and bottom-posting are sometimes compared to traditional written correspondence in that the response is a single continuous text, and the whole original is appended only to clarify which letter is being replied to. Customer service
Customer service
Customer service is the provision of service to customers before, during and after a purchase.According to Turban et al. , “Customer service is a series of activities designed to enhance the level of customer satisfaction – that is, the feeling that a product or service has met the customer...
e-mail practices, in particular, often require that all points be addressed in a clear manner without quoting, while the original e-mail message may be included as an attachment. Including the whole original message may be necessary also when a new correspondent is included in an ongoing discussion. Especially in business correspondence, an entire message thread may need to be forwarded to a third party for handling or discussion. On the other hand, in environments where the entire discussion is accessible to new readers (such as newsgroup
Newsgroup
A usenet newsgroup is a repository usually within the Usenet system, for messages posted from many users in different locations. The term may be confusing to some, because it is usually a discussion group. Newsgroups are technically distinct from, but functionally similar to, discussion forums on...
s or online forums), full inclusion of previous messages is inappropriate; if quoting is necessary, the interleaved style is probably best.
If the original message is to be quoted in full, for any reason, bottom-posting is usually the most appropriate format — because it preserves the logical order of the replies and is consistent with the Western reading direction from top to bottom.
According to Netiquette Guidelines (RFC 1855), a message should begin with an abbreviated summary; i.e. a post should begin with a paraphrasing and/or selective quoting, not "top" nor "bottom" posting. Specifically, it says:
If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
enough text of the original to give a context. This will make
sure readers understand when they start to read your response.
Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the
postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a
response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context
helps everyone. But do not include the entire original!
Interleaved reply combined with top-posting combines the advantages of both styles. However this also results in some portions of the original message being quoted twice, which takes up extra space and may confuse the reader.
In forwarding it is customary to include the entire original message (including all headers) as a MIME
MIME
Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions is an Internet standard that extends the format of email to support:* Text in character sets other than ASCII* Non-text attachments* Message bodies with multiple parts...
attachment, while in top-posted replies these are often trimmed or replaced by an attribution line. An untrimmed quoted message is a weaker form of transcript, as key pieces of meta information
Metadata
The term metadata is an ambiguous term which is used for two fundamentally different concepts . Although the expression "data about data" is often used, it does not apply to both in the same way. Structural metadata, the design and specification of data structures, cannot be about data, because at...
are destroyed. (This is why an ISP
Internet service provider
An Internet service provider is a company that provides access to the Internet. Access ISPs directly connect customers to the Internet using copper wires, wireless or fiber-optic connections. Hosting ISPs lease server space for smaller businesses and host other people servers...
's Postmaster
Postmaster (computing)
In computers and technology, postmaster is a term used to identify the administrator of a mail server. Nearly every domain will have the e-mail address postmaster@example.com where errors in e-mail processing are directed...
will typically insist on a forwarded copy of any problematic e-mail, rather than a quote.) These forwarded messages are displayed in the same way as top-posting in some mail clients.
Top-posting is viewed as seriously destructive to mailing-list
Electronic mailing list
An electronic mailing list is a special usage of email that allows for widespread distribution of information to many Internet users. It is similar to a traditional mailing list — a list of names and addresses — as might be kept by an organization for sending publications to...
digests, where multiple levels of top-posting are difficult to skip. The worst case would be top-posting while including an entire digest as the original message.
Some believe that "top-posting" is appropriate for interpersonal e-mail, but inline posting should always be applied to threaded discussions such as newsgroups.
This example is occasionally used in mailing lists to mock and discourage top-posting:
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Bottom-posting preserves the logical order of the replies and is consistent with the Western reading direction from top to bottom.
One argument against bottom-posting is that scrolling down through a post to find a reply is inconvenient, especially for short replies to long messages, and many inexperienced computer users may not know that they need to scroll down to find a reply to their query. When sending an untrimmed bottom posted message, one might indicate inline replies with a notice at the top such as "I have replied below." However, as many modern mail programs are capable of displaying different levels of quotation with different colors (as seen here), this is not so much of an issue any more. Another good method to indicate that there is more reply text still to come is to always end your text with a signature line. Then the reader will know to continue to read until your signature line appears. This method is particularly polite and useful when using the inline reply method, since it tells the reader that your response is complete at the point where your signature line appears.
Quoting support in popular mail clients
This widespread policy in business communication made bottom and inline posting so unknown among most users that some of the most popular email programs no longer support the traditional posting style. For example Microsoft Outlook, AOL, and Yahoo! make it difficult or impossible to indicate which part of a message is the quoted original or do not let users insert comments between parts of the original.Yahoo! does not have the option "Quote the text of the original message" in Mail Classic, but this setting is retained after turning it on in All-New Mail and then switching back to Mail Classic. Inline replying is broken in Microsoft Outlook, which despite choosing the setting to prefix each line of the original with the "greater-than" character (>) produces a blue line that makes answers inserted between quotes of an HTML email look like part of the original. The only workaround is to use the setting "read all standard mail in plain text".
External links
- RFC 1855 — Netiquette Guidelines
- top-post in jargon dictionary
- Quoting Style How to use quote using interleaved quoting instead of top-posting
- Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting
- http://alpage.ath.cx/toppost/toppost.htm In Defence of Top-Posting (broken?)
- Outlook Quotefix, Outlook Express Quotefix and OE PowerTool — third party utilities for automatically reformatting quoted text in Microsoft mail products
- The Trim-Posting Manifesto
- Using Internet e-mail
- The Aglami Top-Posting FAQ (see #9 for comments on proper inline quoting) (see the 4th paragraph) Internet ArchiveInternet ArchiveThe Internet Archive is a non-profit digital library with the stated mission of "universal access to all knowledge". It offers permanent storage and access to collections of digitized materials, including websites, music, moving images, and nearly 3 million public domain books. The Internet Archive...
at http://web.archive.org/web/20050316032233/http://www.epsilon3.com/home/humor/usenet_h.html