Radha Soami Satsang Beas
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palyal81
When ever I meditate , I am not able to concentrate on my forehead.I see only darkness inside. I want to ask in darkness where to concentrate????where is CENTER POINT, even babaji's swarup is very clear to me.(but always imaginary).even after chanting shabd's in mind.
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replied to:  palyal81
sunilsingh
Replied to:  When ever I meditate , I am not able to concentrate...
I think, one should imagine babaji swarup in darkness only, there is no such perticular place in darkness to meditate, we are already there in darknessnwhen,when we close our eyes.and that is the right place to be in.


this is my point of view, i may be wrong also but this is my technic.



thank you.

radhasoami.
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replied to:  palyal81
starspeed
Replied to:  When ever I meditate , I am not able to concentrate...
You must not look for genuine answers here. Some things that i can suggest you on my behalf are,
(a) Continue meditation but with LOVE and DEVOTION towards your satguru.
(b) When you do meditation, put your attention away from physical objects. For example, some persons look at watches in between meditation to see how much time is left which is not right.
(c) If possible, do meditation in morning.
(d) Don't desire any worldly things from meditation. Consider this as a selfless service to your master.
(e) When you do simran, try to let your mind repeat words of simran slowly and clearly (not with mouth) and you just listen to it. When you start listening bhajan sound, stop simran and listen to bhajan sound only sitting at eye centre. Don't move towards sound. Instead listen to bhajan sound sitting at eye centre only. When the bhajan sound starts fading or stops, continue simran to generate bhajan sound. Keep doing this successively.
(f) Don't dishearten yourself. Just continue seeking. That's what we are doing and most of us are at same level. If you continue with unshakeable faith, one day babaji will surely shower grace on you.

Note:First and foremost thing that i advice you is to Stick to Radha soami books and CDs. I am sure that this question has been raised many times in Question and answer sessions contained in spiritual letters. You may be able to find it.
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  You must not look for genuine answers here. Some things that...
The advice given in the above box appears to have been given by someone who has not taken NAAMDAAN by now and thereby he may not be verse with the likely progress during meditation as also with right mode of doing meditation.

Rather caution, raised in the above box to disregard certain suggestions coming through this forum, is quite healthy proposal.

So, one can visit RSSB SATSANG for updating the NAAM DAAN through BABAJI itself, which would solve all confusions as has been done by several devotees for making speedy progress in the outcome of their meditation.
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  The advice given in the above box appears to have been...
"The advice given in the above box appears to have been given by someone who has not taken NAAMDAAN by now and thereby he may not be verse with the likely progress during meditation as also with right mode of doing meditation. "

==> We have already talked about this Mr. susingh aka blm2. What according to you is NAAMDAAN and what is right mode of doing meditation?


PS:
Why are you using multiple accounts here on this forum viz susingh, Ckb2, 0027, blm2 ... .... ?

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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  "The advice given in the above box appears to have been...
What? Who are susingh 0027 or ckb2? Please clarify.

The entire information given in the above box does not require any comments since quite incorrect and misleading except that it has been accepted that one has not taken NAAM DAAN by now and thereby may not be averse with progress in meditation more than what could be read from RSSB books.

One should not derive such baseless inferences without any basis and habit of alleging others need to be checked by restricting oneself to the topic raised in this forum.

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replied to:  starspeed
palyal81
Replied to:  You must not look for genuine answers here. Some things that...
Yes You are very correct sir,(Mr. starspeed)
It is only possible with lots of Love & devotion & continues process & progress.
In RSSB books there are so many thing to read, like in "Dharti par Swarg", "Sant Samagam", & the most important book & my favorite "Santmat Parkash", at the begening this book's has created a huge interest in me. thats what is in us."the mandals" THE HIGHER PLANS(sahasrara kamal, trikuti. bhavar gupha,,,etc).that the all saints talk about. but the only problem to get it is "EKAGRATA"(To still MIND).
your (d) point is most important.
I want to tell you one thing. my friend has progressed some thing in meditation, one day he told all the thing to his uncle that inside he has seen "1000 PETALED LOTUS" then "THE RISING SUN",(he aslo told me, I even tried to stop him, no need to tell me)at that time his face was full of grace, his eyes were twinkling,his voice pitch was ossom,his body language was displyaing that he has taken new birth.But at the same night he wansn't able to see these all things again, because he has told all the thing which has to be kept SECRET.IT IS ALSO WRITTEN IN BOOKS ASWEL-AS IT IS ALSO SAID BY SEWADARS & BABAJI DURING INITIATION,hajam karna chahiye).from that day my interest is very deep.my friend's attitute was having a drastic change.today he meditates very hard to see himself in the same track, where he was before.(he is feeling gulity). when I asked him the same question he replied me "BAHAJAN & SIMRAN" & PATIENCE.
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replied to:  palyal81
blm2
Replied to:  Yes You are very correct sir,(Mr. starspeed) It is only possible...
Isn't it sharing everything with an advice at the same time not to share any of such individual's spiritual progress by disobeying the advice of BABAJI?

OH! Isn't it so strange? Or palyal81 and starspeed both are one and same person using different IDS?
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replied to:  starspeed
susingh
Replied to:  "The advice given in the above box appears to have been...
It has been brought out in three boxes as if two or four IDS are being used by one person only while sharing views on this Forum.

1. How is it possible to use two or four IDS by one person?

2. Why is it being done and what is the motive or benefit for doing it?

3. How to know as if this is really happening, more so when views expressed by any, get shared with everyone and any one and do not and cannot remain any secret?
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replied to:  blm2
palyal81
Replied to:  Isn't it sharing everything with an advice at the same time...
Vow now new balme. Listen Mr, blm2 or susing who ever you are , i have only one ID palyal81 thats it, you are using different ID'S. we all know very well. starspeed ji ignore blm2. & plz reply me. blm2 you can only know how to criticize others. I think you are a lady above 90's . blm2 be a man . ok. & answer only those question which are been asked.if you can't , then get.....!!!!!
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replied to:  palyal81
0027
Replied to:  Vow now new balme. Listen Mr, blm2 or susing who...
Oh thanks! I never knew that some SATSANGI can also determine gender and age also through ID revealed on this forum.But if age and gender determination is taken as correct, then SATSANGIS could not be expected to show this type of behavior/disrespect to some 90 years old lady.

But keep such secret specialization as an asset for some other times. But take a note as if this forum is not owned by any gender or age determining specialists and read terms and conditions for joining of this forum again.

There is a need to re-iterate something about "EGO" again in this box also as under;

What if EGO of SATSANGIS is on the top, taking as if they are very close to GOD and all others were downtrodden humans, busy and duty bound in their worldly affairs with utmost honesty.

Everyone needs to read following story to know the hidden EGO, if could be observed/found:

• KILL YOUR EGO!


Many of us, irrespective of our backgrounds and beliefs, are victims of a serious character flaw called the EGO. Ego is defined as an exaggerated sense of self-importance and it is quite difficult to get over this flaw.

In this connection I wish to recall a story about a scientist who, after a lot of practice & efforts, developed a formula & learned the art of reproducing himself. He did it so perfectly that it was impossible to tell the reproduction from the original like many of the currency counterfeiters we have in India today.


One day while doing his research, he realized that the Angel of death was searching for him. In order to keep him alive he reproduced a dozen copies of himself. The reproduction was so perfect that all of them looked exactly like him. Now when the Angel of death came down, he was at a loss to know which of thirteen before him, was the original scientist. However, being an expert in human nature, the Angel came up with a clever idea.

He said to the scientist addressing all thirteen of them, “Sir, you must be a genius to have succeeded in making such a perfect reproduction of yourself. However, I have discovered a flaw in your work, just one little tiny little flaw.”

The scientist immediately jumped out and shouted, “Impossible! Where is the flaw? “Right here” said the Angel, as he picked up the scientist from among the reproductions and carried him off.

The scientist could not control his pride, so he lost his life. So when man’s Knowledge and Skills takes him to the top of the ladder and makes him successful, just the three letter word “EGO” can pull him down.

Had the scientist, instead, opted to request the Angel through each of them, to help by showing Angel's own skills to fix the flaw and had not got involved in EGO of his perfection, the outcome could have been ...(To be guessed)

So don’t allow EGO to kill you.

Instead; KILL YOUR EGO!

But YAHAN SUNTA KISI KI KAUN HAI KISE SUNYE KOI KYON?

How to meet such a specialist at RSSB BEAS in INDIA during any visit to that center from USA.
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replied to:  0027
blm2
Replied to:  Oh thanks! I never knew that some SATSANGI can also determine...
For palyal81 please

Sorry!

Please try to restrict to the main topic of technique of concentrating to attain progress in meditation instead of getting perturbed by sharing uncalled for discussions in an undesired manner to hurt feelings of others or that of self.

There is no end to settle such conflicting views in any forum. If not, it is O.K.

Greetings of the day!
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replied to:  palyal81
blm2
Replied to:  Vow now new balme. Listen Mr, blm2 or susing who...
Sorry!

Please try to restrict to the main topic of technique of concentrating to attain progress in meditation instead of getting perturbed by sharing uncalled for discussions in an undesired manner to hurt feelings of others or that of self.

There is no end to settle such conflicting views in any forum or otherwise also. Nor any conflicting views can be settled through some other modes. Getting blocked in such conflicting views, may also cause nothing but distraction during meditation, which requires thoughtless status to be attained at the earliest possible stage of meditation.

If not, it is O.K.

Greetings of the day!
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replied to:  palyal81
starspeed
Replied to:  Yes You are very correct sir,(Mr. starspeed) It is only possible...
Yes, you are right friend. The inner experiences we see inside must not be shared with anyone. It creates ego,pride,superiority over others and hinders with spiritual progress. I know that it's the human instinct to share a big achievement, but we have to digest it if we want to make further progress. The spiritual journey as depicted in the books is all real and practical and the experiences that your friend has seen is just the tip of iceberg. We must also not desire for spiritual progress, because in my opinion that makes our attention scatter too. We must not think of anything else and surrender ourselves with love and devotion to our babaji and these things will come to you by self by his grace. Just keep trying.

I would like you to try meditation techniques demonstrated by Ishwar Puri Ji (initiate of Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_kBrI-kTfc
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replied to:  0027
palyal81
Replied to:  Oh thanks! I never knew that some SATSANGI can also determine...
Yar tum apni chize EGO. vigo etc. bla bla bla apne pas rakh, apko zarurat hei mujhe nahi, I am talking to blm2 not to you. and keep the stories with you or tell to your family members not to me....!!!!!!Ima not intrested ok...
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replied to:  blm2
palyal81
Replied to:  For palyal81 please Sorry! Please try to restrict...
Ya you are correct dear....
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replied to:  blm2
palyal81
Replied to:  Sorry! Please try to restrict to the main topic...
I agree with you...
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replied to:  starspeed
palyal81
Replied to:  Yes, you are right friend. The inner experiences we see inside...
Its a nice link sir.....
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  Yes, you are right friend. The inner experiences we see inside...
OH WAH!

On visiting the desired website, I am highly thrilled to listen to the valuable talks of ISHWAR ji, which included an advice to use common sense also while following the teachings of one's master. While talking about this topic, he talked about eight sense of a man, including five much talked about senses.

According to him sixth sense is intuition, which was reported to be found more in women as compared to men. Seventh sense was “COMMON SENSE" which always must be applied before coming into action. For it he told a story," A master told his three disciples to jump into a well. Mr. A did not take time and jumped immediately into the well. Mr. B refused to obey his master's orders and left his camp. However, the third disciple Mr. C asked the master to show him as how to jump at all in the well. The master graded Mr.A to be a bad disciple due to following his orders without application of his common sense and graded Mr. C to be the best, the one who used his common sense and wanted his master to show him the way how to do that, since he could visualize some danger into such act.

So, one must use common sense also while following the teachings of his master even.

8th sense was reported to be sense of humor (ability to laugh) which according to him, was above all other senses. If one can laugh over things, he would be taking the life quite differently.

Similarly his talk was quite impressive to describe all aspects of meditation as also guarantees of a perfect living master showered on his disciples ir-respect of individual's progress in meditation at any level.

Thanks!
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  OH WAH! On visiting the desired website, I am highly...
I am glad you liked it. Watch his other videos. He has beautifully explained surat shabd yoga with science. Everything is practical. There is no place of dogma and blind faith in sant mat.
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  I am glad you liked it. Watch his other videos. He...
It is correct that Ishwar Puri ji's videos are full of scientific logics and even leaving lot of discretion for the listeners to apply use their seventh sense of “Common sense” while following RSSB teachings. He has touched many topics in his videos in an interesting way with lot of humor as also in full details without any short cuts. Above all, he also ends his topics, mostly by inviting questions and answering their queries.

His stress for reliance on teachings of a Perfect Living Master (PLM)is also unique explaining the requirement of a living master alone. According to him, “Only a living master can say no to his disciples. A dead master always says yes to disciples. In case of dead master only one’s mind speaks and not so in case of a living master. Living master manifests in his disciples. Hence it is important to have a living master.”

But after listening to his so many videos, repeatedly several times, doesn’t one feel cheated/betrayed on one point alone, by leaving other points aside? That is, that on one hand Mr. Ishwar Puri stressed upon a lot of importance of a Perfect Living Master as against the dead masters and on the other hand, he did repeatedly talk several things about great master SAWAN SINGH but did not talk anything either about any other GURU, including CHARAN SINGHJI or even the present live GURU BABA GURINDER SINGH JI DHILLON in any of his videos.

He, even, claimed to be initiating disciples, under the proclaimed authority of MAHARAJ SAWAN SINGH without revealing need of their initiation by the present live GURU. So, in this manner, his own stress on the need of Perfect Living Master (PLM) gets shaken up in one’s mind, more so when he was reported to have been initiated way back more than 76 years ago at the age of 10 years and now he is above 86 (Ishwar C Puri celebrated his 85th Birthday on 26 Nov 2011. Ishwar Ji was initiated by the Great Master - Hazur Baba Sawan Singh Ji over 75 years ago.)

Anyhow, thanks again for providing the said website, which if, causes many doubts, does clears more doubts on many issues.
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  It is correct that Ishwar Puri ji's videos are full of...
"That is, that on one hand Mr. Ishwar Puri stressed upon a lot of importance of a Perfect Living Master as against the dead masters and on the other hand, he did repeatedly talk several things about great master SAWAN SINGH but did not talk anything either about any other GURU, including CHARAN SINGHJI or even the present live GURU BABA GURINDER SINGH JI DHILLON in any of his videos. "

==> That's the greatness of the masters. They talk about their masters only. This point of yours has been clearly told in one of the videos. I can't exactly remember which.






"He, even, claimed to be initiating disciples, under the proclaimed authority of MAHARAJ SAWAN SINGH without revealing need of their initiation by the present live GURU. So, in this manner, his own stress on the need of Perfect Living Master (PLM) gets shaken up in one’s mind, more so when he was reported to have been initiated way back more than 76 years ago at the age of 10 years and now he is above 86 (Ishwar C Puri celebrated his 85th Birthday on 26 Nov 2011. Ishwar Ji was initiated by the Great Master - Hazur Baba Sawan Singh Ji over 75 years ago.)"


==> Ishwar Puri Ji is a living master.
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  "That is, that on one hand Mr. Ishwar Puri stressed upon...
But question was raised as to why ISHWAR PURI was initiating for and on behalf of his master SAWAN SINGHJI instead of for and on his behalf itself, as is done by other living masters. No other master initiates on behalf of someone else.

During 2012, Ishwar Puri has also laid foundation of ISHA (Institute of the Study of Human Awareness) in Chicago and a DERA BABA SAWAN SINGH is also being set up In WISCONSIN on the bank of a river there, for which land has already been purchased and construction has also commenced, with a hope and call that some living master may also emerge in USA in the near future.

But his SATSANGS are available on YOUTUBE unlike those of BABA GURINDER SINGH JI DHILON, who has some reservations for use of this modern scientific medium of communication for reasons best known to him alone, though is causing some problems among SATSANGIS to quench their thirst on day-to-day basis.
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  But question was raised as to why ISHWAR PURI was initiating...
"But question was raised as to why ISHWAR PURI was initiating for and on behalf of his master SAWAN SINGHJI instead of for and on his behalf itself, as is done by other living masters. No other master initiates on behalf of someone else.During 2012, Ishwar Puri has also laid foundation of ISHA (Institute of the Study of Human Awareness) in Chicago and a DERA BABA SAWAN SINGH is also being set up In WISCONSIN on the bank of a river there, for which land has already been purchased and construction has also commenced, with a hope and call that some living master may also emerge in USA in the near future.
"

==> Great masters always credit their work to their previous masters. Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji also installed Dera on bank of river of beas in punjab which is today known as DERA BABA JAIMAL SINGH!.
I would like you to watch this video closely and attentively,

http://tinyurl.com/ahfy8jl






"But his SATSANGS are available on YOUTUBE unlike those of BABA GURINDER SINGH JI DHILON, who has some reservations for use of this modern scientific medium of communication for reasons best known to him alone, though is causing some problems among SATSANGIS to quench their thirst on day-to-day basis."


==> If you can't decide what's the effect of food on spirituality, then how can you decide the Mauj/Will of babaji?
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  "But question was raised as to why ISHWAR PURI was initiating...
1. The suggested website,"http://tinyurl.com/ahfy8jl" is not responding, may be due to some spelling error. Please check.

2. It has been inferred as if ISHWAR PURI is also a live GURU. But as per RSSB basic philosophy, there can be only one live GURU at a time or is there some omission in any such belief/philosophy for there being only one living master in RSSB? Of course it did happen earlier also when BABA JAIMAL SINGH started functioning from BEAS in PUNJAB after having left AGRA and new lineage of GURUS started from there, well known as RSSB lineage.

3. At the same time how is ISHWAR PURI to be addressed i.e. as babaji, hazoor sahib or what, since GURU should not and was never addressed by name by his disciples?

4. Else there have been several divisions, having different lineage of GURUS in each of them, say at AGRA or at BEAS. If so, then what is lineage of GURUS, where ISHWAR PURI is also a live GURU, more so because his name neither is nor could/should be in BEAS lineage, where BABA GURINDER SINGH JI DHILON is already in position?

5. Above all, a GURU was always nominated by some other GURU and could not proclaim self as GURU. If so, who nominated ISHWAR PURI to be a GURU?

According to ISHWAR PURI, one's progress, on the path, is measured by (1) outer progress through humility (humbleness or absence of irritation) as also other external behavioral aspects of any SATSANGI and (2) inner progress is measured through achievement in one’s meditation levels, which may take variable length of time in every case, According to Ishwar Puri ji, Inner progress can also be measured through changes observed in the outer progress, which does get observed by the society around any one as also by self.

According to him, inner progress remains a casualty for lack of outer progress due to any reasons, like ego or what so ever.

That is why 95% or even more SATSANGIS fail to bear the fruits of meditation, since they cannot attain the desired level of concentration by not achieving the desired thoughtless state of mind.
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  1. The suggested website,"http://tinyurl.com/ahfy8jl" is not responding, may be due to...
"1. The suggested website,"http://tinyurl.com/ahfy8jl" is not responding, may be due to some spelling error. Please check."

==> Check this out,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjfQhGAcv1Y





"2. It has been inferred as if ISHWAR PURI is also a live GURU. But as per RSSB basic philosophy, there can be only one live GURU at a time or is there some omission in any such belief/philosophy for there being only one living master in RSSB?"

==> I am sure you've misinterpreted some things in RSSB Philosophy. According to RSSB philosophy, there is ATLEAST ONE satguru at a given time. It DOESN'T MEAN that there is only one satguru at a time.






"Of course it did happen earlier also when BABA JAIMAL SINGH started functioning from BEAS in PUNJAB after having left AGRA and new lineage of GURUS started from there, well known as RSSB lineage."

==> Baba Jaimal Singh ji never left agra. He was born and raised in Gurdaspur,punjab. He took Naamdaan from Soami Ji of Agra and then decided to deliver satsangs on the bank of river beas.






"3. At the same time how is ISHWAR PURI to be addressed i.e. as babaji, hazoor sahib or what, since GURU should not and was never addressed by name by his disciples? "

==> You are contradicting your own statement. We also address our present satguru by babaji.







"4. Else there have been several divisions, having different lineage of GURUS in each of them, say at AGRA or at BEAS. If so, then what is lineage of GURUS, where ISHWAR PURI is also a live GURU, more so because his name neither is nor could/should be in BEAS lineage, where BABA GURINDER SINGH JI DHILON is already in position? "

==> Ishwar Puri Ji is setting up dera at winconsin according to will of his master Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji and our present master is at current position according to the will of Maharaj Charan Singh Ji.






"5. Above all, a GURU was always nominated by some other GURU and could not proclaim self as GURU. If so, who nominated ISHWAR PURI to be a GURU? "

==> Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji. Watch the video closely.






"According to ISHWAR PURI, one's progress, on the path, is measured by (1) outer progress through humility (humbleness or absence of irritation) as also other external behavioral aspects of any SATSANGI and (2) inner progress is measured through achievement in one’s meditation levels, which may take variable length of time in every case, According to Ishwar Puri ji, Inner progress can also be measured through changes observed in the outer progress, which does get observed by the society around any one as also by self. "

==> You sir again seem to have misintrepreted some things. I don't quite agree with the first point. Inner spiritual progress indeed develops himility, control over anger and also a greater control over the senses, but deciding inner progress by merely outward behaviour may not yield necessary result. A person who job requirement is to show some anger to his fellow lower authority employees who are not reluctant to work, or to his own child by scolding for betterment of his own child cleary doesn't confine to your misintrepreted definition.
I agree with your second point.
Kindly paste the link of video here from where you are quoting this.






"According to him, inner progress remains a casualty for lack of outer progress due to any reasons, like ego or what so ever. "

==> Inner progress, a CASUALTY.... lack of outer progress... like EGO...
You again seem to have misintrepreted some things again.
Kindly paste the link of video here from where you are quoting this.




"That is why 95% or even more SATSANGIS fail to bear the fruits of meditation, since they cannot attain the desired level of concentration by not achieving the desired thoughtless state of mind."

==> Nobody is perfect for the first time. Meditation is not that thing that will give you instant results. It is a lifelong slow process.If one continues to be on the same path with faith,love and devotion, he would surely bear the fruits at a latter period in his life.
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  "1. The suggested website,"http://tinyurl.com/ahfy8jl" is not responding, may be due to...
Even if lot of difference in opinion is observed in the above post, there does not appear to be any need to stretch this topic further so as to give it a sweat ending.

Thanks once again.
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  Even if lot of difference in opinion is observed in the...
There are not opinions, but facts.
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  There are not opinions, but facts.
O.K. then leaving all other difference aside, following points are found to be quite arbitrary and for away from facts on the ground.

1. In reply to question 4 & 5 it has been said one hand that our present master is at current position according to the will of Maharaj Charan Singh Ji. This means that BABA GURINDER SINGH JI DHILON was nominated by Maharaj Charan Singh JI. Whereas, on the other hand it has been brought out that Maharaj Sawan Singh nominated ISHAWAR PURI as RSSB GURU. Then what about Sardār Bahādur Jagat Singh Mahārāj ( Master at Beas, 1948-1951) who actually became RSSB GURU after the death of Hazur Bābā Sāwan Singh Mahārāj ( Master at Beas, 1903-1948) in the year 1948.

2. Further as per facts available on the internet, Jaimal Singh ji was a disciple of Soāmi Shivdayal Singh, who taught Surat Shabd Yoga in Agra, United Provinces. But Jaimal Singh (1884-1903) was not nominated as GURU by Soami Shivdyal Singh who had died way back on 15 June 1878 after nominating Rai Bahadur Saligram as GURU at Agra.

3. At the same time, it has been brought out in reply to Question No. 2, that according to RSSB philosophy, there is ATLEAST ONE satguru at a given time. It DOESN'T MEAN that there is only one satguru at a time. Then can anyone quote as to how many live GURUS are there in RSSB at present and at what point of time, there were more than one SATGURU in RSSB?

4. Above all Dr, Ishwar Puri, the founder of ISHA (Institute for the Study of Human Awareness) in Chaicago has bought land in Wisconsin for DERA Sawan Singh, which is independent of RSSB having no link with that.

5. So, fact remains that both, Jaimal Singh ji and Dr. Ishwar puri, though had been initiated by a Perfect Master, but had not been nominated to function as GURU/Master and became self pro-claimed GURU.
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  O.K. then leaving all other difference aside, following points are found...
"1. In reply to question 4 & 5 it has been said one hand that our present master is at current position according to the will of Maharaj Charan Singh Ji. This means that BABA GURINDER SINGH JI DHILON was nominated by Maharaj Charan Singh JI. Whereas, on the other hand it has been brought out that Maharaj Sawan Singh nominated ISHAWAR PURI as RSSB GURU. Then what about Sardār Bahādur Jagat Singh Mahārāj ( Master at Beas, 1948-1951) who actually became RSSB GURU after the death of Hazur Bābā Sāwan Singh Mahārāj ( Master at Beas, 1903-1948) in the year 1948."

==> You answered a part of your question yourself. Yes, Maharaj Sawan Singh nominated Sardar Bahadur Jagat Singh Maharaj Ji as next **RSSB** master. But that doesn't mean that he didn't had any will at that time to carry out teachings to the west. This very fact has been mentioned by Ishwar Puri Ji in his videos and also told in sant mat books where he mentioned that surat shabad yoga teachings will spread in the west in the near future.






"2. Further as per facts available on the internet, Jaimal Singh ji was a disciple of Soāmi Shivdayal Singh, who taught Surat Shabd Yoga in Agra, United Provinces. But Jaimal Singh (1884-1903) was not nominated as GURU by Soami Shivdyal Singh who had died way back on 15 June 1878 after nominating Rai Bahadur Saligram as GURU at Agra."

==> This opinion of yours show nothing but utter ignorance. Have a look at the link you just pasted in your previous post in another thread( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radha_Soami_Satsang_Beas )and re-read again that last passage in the link in which it has been clearly said that "Soami ji maharaj ordered baba ji maharaj(hazur jaimal singh ji maharaj)to go to beas and spread radha soami teachings in punjab."






"3. At the same time, it has been brought out in reply to Question No. 2, that according to RSSB philosophy, there is ATLEAST ONE satguru at a given time. It DOESN'T MEAN that there is only one satguru at a time. Then can anyone quote as to how many live GURUS are there in RSSB at present and at what point of time, there were more than one SATGURU in RSSB?"

==> As far as i know there is one in RSSB(Radha soami satsang beas) headquartered in beas. Just because there hasn't been one satguru at a point of time doesn't mean that there can't be many be it RSSB or some other sect since that other satguru may not essentially hail from RSSB.






"4. Above all Dr, Ishwar Puri, the founder of ISHA (Institute for the Study of Human Awareness) in Chaicago has bought land in Wisconsin for DERA Sawan Singh, which is independent of RSSB having no link with that."

==> Mere change of name tag doesn't change the identity. Teachings are the same.






"5. So, fact remains that both, Jaimal Singh ji and Dr. Ishwar puri, though had been initiated by a Perfect Master, but had not been nominated to function as GURU/Master and became self pro-claimed GURU."

==> Fact or Biased opinion?
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  "1. In reply to question 4 & 5 it has been said...
Point wise position needs further clarification as under:

1. Does it mean that such wishes were lacking somewhere during teachings of BABA GURINDER SINGH ji in various SATSANG centers in the west, requiring additional efforts of another living master/GURU Dr. ISHWAR PURI.

2. Fact remains that BABA JAIMAL SINGH functioned as GURU at BEAS from 1884 i.e. after six years of death of Soami Shivdyal Singh Ji. One may still draw any inference as if he had been directed to go to Punjab more than six years earlier and delayed to follow the said command due to reasons best known to the SATSANGI alone, who instead of agreeing 2+2=4 wants to pretend as if 2+2=7.

3. If there can be many satgurus in RSSB at a time, then why is it not agreed that it had not happened so for since, no such instance has been cited even on asking a specific question in this regard? This itself means that it had never happened unless splinter groups were formed in any religion or in RSSB as has really happened and need to be accepted. History of SIKHS also confirms that there has not been more than one GURU at any given time.

Website, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radha_Soami" clearly confirms that Shiv Dayal Singh's wife, Narayani Devi (called Radhaji), Rai Saligram (called Huzur Maharaj), Sanmukh Das, Gharib Das, Partap Singh (Shiv Dayal's younger brother) and Baba Jaimal Singh were some of his prominent followers around whom individual satsang groups formed. This splintering off, led to the propagation of Radhasoami teachings to a wider audience, although with slightly varied interpretations.

4. Change of name tag also is termed as formation of a splinter group in RSSB or elsewhere in any other religion, unless it would have been done by BABA GURINDER SINGH JI, the present RSSB GURU.

5. Fact and only a fact!

But in the end, it is felt that unless any answer sheet is examined by the teacher, it would be nothing but a futile exercise to conclude as to what is right, either 2+2=4 or 2+2=5 or 2+2=7. Hence in absence of visiting/viewing of this forum either by BABAJI or by any of RSSB representaTive, no conclusion could ever be derived on the basis of sharing of views by any two individuals, having quite diverse views as displayed in the above 31 posts.

BY! By! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  Point wise position needs further clarification as under: 1. Does it...
1. "Does it mean that such wishes were lacking somewhere during teachings of BABA GURINDER SINGH ji in various SATSANG centers in the west, requiring additional efforts of another living master/GURU Dr. ISHWAR PURI."

==> To spread teachings to a wider audience, it seems very likely,yes.




2. "Fact remains that BABA JAIMAL SINGH functioned as GURU at BEAS from 1884 i.e. after six years of death of Soami Shivdyal Singh Ji. One may still draw any inference as if he had been directed to go to Punjab more than six years earlier and delayed to follow the said command due to reasons best known to the SATSANGI alone, who instead of agreeing 2+2=4 wants to pretend as if 2+2=7"

==> Have you met Soami Ji ? Were you there when this happened? Soami Ji may have left this physical world, but maybe you don't know, believe and comprehend this fact masters are astrally connected to each other.




3. "If there can be many satgurus in RSSB at a time, then why is it not agreed that it had not happened so for since, no such instance has been cited even on asking a specific question in this regard? This itself means that it had never happened unless splinter groups were formed in any religion or in RSSB as has really happened and need to be accepted. History of SIKHS also confirms that there has not been more than one GURU at any given time."

==> Guru Nanak Dev Ji(1469-1539) and Sant Kabir Sahib Ji(1440-1518) were contemporary Satgurus, 49 years in common.





4. "Website, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radha_Soami" clearly confirms that Shiv Dayal Singh's wife, Narayani Devi (called Radhaji), Rai Saligram (called Huzur Maharaj), Sanmukh Das, Gharib Das, Partap Singh (Shiv Dayal's younger brother) and Baba Jaimal Singh were some of his prominent followers around whom individual satsang groups formed. This splintering off, led to the propagation of Radhasoami teachings to a wider audience, although with slightly varied interpretations."

==> I know this fact. But your lie of Baba Jaimal Singh being a self-proclaimed guru is clearly defied.






5. "Change of name tag also is termed as formation of a splinter group in RSSB or elsewhere in any other religion, unless it would have been done by BABA GURINDER SINGH JI, the present RSSB GURU."

==> Yes, maybe but teachings are still the same.
You must not discuss uncalled personalities or delve into personal lives of Saints. Its pointless. Focus on what they are trying to teach.






6. "BY! By! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!"

==> Truth is bitter and often sometimes hard to bear. Get agitated. It's the first step towards learning!!
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  1. "Does it mean that such wishes were lacking somewhere during...
POINTWISE FACTS:


1. Need no comments, since agreed ignoring the facts that it could be termed nothing but formation of splinter groups.

2. One can stick to a point by invoking astrally connections between two masters instead of duly accepted fact of established/notified splinter groups on the cited website.

3. Again the example of existence of two GURUS for 49 years in common does not pertain to same identified/recognized group/sect, as is in the instant case of RSSB who, otherwise believes in philosophy of one living GURU. Theory of more GURUS, at a given time,in RSSB cannot be accepted unless it comes from some authenticated source and not from some individual SATSANGI who claims so, for the sake of an argument alone, more so because existence of a large number of masters, in various religions and notified groups/sects in the world, can never be denied. Nor the existence of splinter groups in various religions as in HINDUS, MUSLIMS OR CHRISTIANS is denied by anyone.

4. If sitting in self judgment to declare the correctness of one’s views suits someone, it is quite O.K. approach and needs to be appreciated and be maintained in the same spirit of EGO!

5. It appears to be ridiculous to find as if any comments on personal lives of some saints have been made at all.

6. Oh VOW! Finally a SATSANGI has shown one's colors for having not shared views for some purpose but for only agitating and hurting others.

Thanks for such a noble job/service for making others to learn, through this forum, also please.

KEEP IT UP PLEASE.

BY BY!
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  POINTWISE FACTS: 1. Need no comments, since agreed ignoring the...
Scroll up and find what noble views you have produced, if any?
You call yourself a satsangi at one point and at other point, you criticize satgurus. What should i call this?
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  POINTWISE FACTS: 1. Need no comments, since agreed ignoring the...
Someone said right about you. You are Lakeer ka Fakeer. You come again and again with your so called facts which are nothing but utter ignorant views and well fabricated lies. Keep creating more multiple accounts and spreading delusion. It will lead you nowhere.
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  Scroll up and find what noble views you have produced, if...
A real SATSANGI does need to keep some degrees for self also instead of distributing to others under some false delusions without even accepting repeated requests made to conclude/end the topic, several times.

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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  Someone said right about you. You are Lakeer ka Fakeer. You...
Really? One feels as if this forum requires to be shared by those who can write dictated views of one egoistic SATSANGI.

Else all the views, even if supported with the facts available on various websites, are either not accepted or get twisted in the manner of self convenience alone by calling all other participants as to be "lakeer ka fakeer."

SKY high EGO of SATSANGIS has also been talked about in a recent post dated 27.02.2013 by some ,sonam86, contents of which are reproduced here under since vital and relevant:-

"Radha soami baba ji sab to pehala eh sawal ki ager koi insan naam daan lenda hai te us to baad simran nu pure time te karda hai te bot jada seva v karda te saal vich bot vari beas seva te satsang lai jada hai par us insan de ander hankar hai te kadva bolda hai apne ap nu bot ucha samjhda hai ki baba ji us d galtiya maf kar den ge. ager koi ik pase 2 gante naam da simran karda te ik pase loka da dil dukhanda hai ta us nu naam da ki phal mile ga Radha soami baba ji ans jarur dena eh sawal mere ander bachpan to c te hun me 23 saal d hai koi galti ho gai hove ta maaf kar dena radha soami"

So such type of ego is not displayed in some isolated cases but is observed in SATSANGIS at a large, more so by those, who claim to have made lot of progress in spirtuality/meditation, but treat others as downtrodden humans only.
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replied to:  blm2
SimranjitKaur1990
Replied to:  Really? One feels as if this forum requires to be shared...
Radhasoami veer ji...

Aapke sare answers is website par hai,

http://radhasoami.byethost18.com/radhasoami/radhasoami_astonishing_facts.php
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replied to:  SimranjitKaur1990
blm2
Replied to:  Radhasoami veer ji... Aapke sare answers is website par hai,...
There appears to be some error in conveying the proposed website. Please check.

Thanks.
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replied to:  SimranjitKaur1990
palyal81
Replied to:  Radhasoami veer ji... Aapke sare answers is website par hai,...
Hahahahahaha nice reply,to blm2 hahahahahahahahahhoohhohohohohoh
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replied to:  SimranjitKaur1990
palyal81
Replied to:  Radhasoami veer ji... Aapke sare answers is website par hai,...
But why this link is not displaying rssb site.?
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replied to:  SimranjitKaur1990
starspeed
Replied to:  Radhasoami veer ji... Aapke sare answers is website par hai,...
First i was confused where are the answers but when i carefully read i realized what it actually means and had a good laugh. Yes, In my humble opinion he surely need some help. :D
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  First i was confused where are the answers but when i...
Forget hahahaha or hohohoho

1. Proud Son

A man asked the Lord Buddha "I want Happiness"

The Lord Buddha said "First remove 'I' That's ego"

Then remove, ‘want’ that’s desire.

See now! You are left with only ‘Happiness’

2. Let us not wait until our lives start showing signs of "low battery",

let us always stay connected to the power source and stay fully charged.

Yes, God is the source of our life. Stay Connected!
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  Forget hahahaha or hohohoho 1. Proud Son A man...
Thanks for the precious advice sir.
Please tell me how do i stay connected to the power?
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replied to:  starspeed
palyal81
Replied to:  Thanks for the precious advice sir. Please tell me how do...
Starspeed ji yes its funny. first I was also searching for what it was. finally I come to know it was great rely by simranjitKaur to blm2. & STILL ,YES STILL blm2 was asking that "There appears to be some error in conveying the proposed website. Please check. "
hehehehehhe
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replied to:  palyal81
blm2
Replied to:  Starspeed ji yes its funny. first I was also searching for...
A group of six people, here in Science of the Soul center at PETALUMA, San Francisco, USA, hope to see both of above SATSANGIS in the near future at BEAS to clarify all of jokes as also deep GYAN KI DHARA hidden in such a treasure at this early age. Till then hope to enjoy all such jokes as also GYAN KI DHARA or what so ever.
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replied to:  blm2
starspeed
Replied to:  A group of six people, here in Science of the Soul...
6 people at science of soul..who?

Jokes clarified at BEAS?

How do i stay connected to the power source sir ? Still waiting for your reply.
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replied to:  palyal81
starspeed
Replied to:  Starspeed ji yes its funny. first I was also searching for...
Yes ji, that reply from blm2 made it more funny!

PS: MUHAHAHAHA
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  Yes ji, that reply from blm2 made it more funny!...
ENOUGH! No response to such ridiculous posts henceforth, ever please. SORRY, having wasted so much time without any purposeful sharing views with some egoistic --------!

Yes sir! 2=2 does make 7! One does win such an EGOISTIC CLAIM!

Keep it up now in any dictating manner by showing true colors, as if one is accepted to be owner of this forum and can mislead anyone to any extent.
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replied to:  starspeed
blm2
Replied to:  6 people at science of soul..who? Jokes clarified at BEAS?...
No waiting GIANIJI SATSANGI please!

YES! 2+ 2=9 is also agreed to for EGO's victory!

No sharing of views with such a GYANI PURUSH here in after. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH BY NOW!
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