Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Israeli-Palestinian conflict

 
Was there ever a palestinian state?
 
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Israeli-Palestinian conflict discussion
 
menofit
Was there ever a palestinian state?
           
 
ramadan
replied to: menofit
Replied To:  Was there ever a palestinian state?
Of course yes, before 1917 it was the arab palestinian country at that year polfor (king of united kingdom) gives the jewish people a permission to build their country on palestinien land, how? why? with what right?
           
 
menofit
replied to: ramadan
Replied To:  Of course yes, before 1917 it was the arab palestinian country at t...
No my friend, you are wrong. Lord Balfur just recognized the Jewish peoples rights for a homeland in the area but there was never a Palestinian state. The area east to the Mediterrenian sea was, since the destruction of Judea by the Romans, always a part of one empire or another. Great Britain was the last empire that controlled the area. Together with France the British created all the countries in the modern Middle-East (including Iraq, Syria and Jordan) and that happened after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire 1914- 1922. They left the area between the mediterenian sea and the Jordan river for future negotiatins. In fact, at the time you mention there was no Jorden kingdom either. The area east of the Jorden river was given, by the British, in 1922, to a Vahabee tribe that escaped from Saudia, under the leadership of the Hashamite family (king Abdulla the first).
           
 
ramadan
replied to: menofit
Replied To:  No my friend, you are wrong. Lord Balfur just recognized the Jewish...
So my dear friend, where is israel before that date?
           
 
menofit
replied to: ramadan
Replied To:  So my dear friend, where is israel before that date?
Again:The last autonomous state east to the Mediterranean sea before 1922 was the Jewish Kingdom of Judea-Samaria. In 70 BC the Roman Empire destroy the Jewish kingdom and exile most of the people to areas under Roman rule while deportees from other areas of the Empire were settlled, by the Romans,in the former Jewish state. Jewish people always remained in the area. The name Palestine was given to the area by the Romans in memory of the Philistines and inorder to erase the memory of their fierce enemies, the Israelites. The name has nothing to do with today Palestinians. For 2,218 years, from 70 BC to 1948, Jews, who were dispersed all around the world, prayed and tried to return to their homeland. But the Empires who controlled the area (Roman - Arabs - Crusaders - Ottomans - England& France) never let the Jew to re-settle. After the collapse of the Ottoman (Turkish) empire the British-French powers started to re-map the Middle-East according to national-historical borders. They decided which nation recieve a state and where. Iraq, for example, was created from at least 5 former nations (including Curdistan, a 5,000 years old nation that were forced to become Iraqies). At that time many groups demanded a state. Sopme were given and some not. At that time the Palestinian Nationak movement started. The so-called Palestinians were the local Arabs descendant of the people settled by the Romans and local Beduines. In 1917 Great Britain decide (not because the loved the Jews)that the area east of the Mediterranean should not be allocated and left for negotiation with the Arabs and the Jews( Syria claimed the area as well like they claimed Lebanon). But there was never a question about the historical rights of the Jews in this area .In 1922 (against the wish of Syria, the Jews and local Palestinians) the British decided to award 50% of the area (East to the Jordan River) to a Bedouin tribe (who supported the British armies)who came from Arebia, the Hashemite Tribe under King Abdulla. This is today's Kingdom of Jordan. In 1948 the UN decided "it is time to correct historical distortion" and devided the area between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River 50% to the Jews and 50% for the Palestinians. The Zionist movement accepted the Palestinian movement rejected. In fact, the only reason the world recognizes the Palestinians as a nation is because of the Zionist movement. If not for the Zionist movement the area of today's Israel would be divided between Jordan, Syria and Egypt. The only real Palestinian state in the world is Jordan
           
 
jasonmarke
replied to: menofit
Replied To:  Was there ever a palestinian state?
Never a state as such as defined by the UN.
           
 
ramadan
replied to: menofit
Replied To:  Again:The last autonomous state east to the Mediterranean sea befor...
First of all about the historical view:
The first people came to this land was kanaan and yabus and these two tribe was arabs.
Second:Palestine have a many of religions like islam and christinaty and jew but it's an arab land so every one have the right to live in palestine but under the arab contol as it's an arab country,like egypt for instance all the people live together (muslims,christain,jew and etc)but it's arab country.so,for some people to immgraite from the Nazi persecution and came to palestine under some illegal decissions from europe and Amrica,this is not acceptable.
So again,palestain is arab country have all the relegions and the jew know that very well that in some day it will back again to the origin
           
 
Lafrique
replied to: menofit
Replied To:  Was there ever a palestinian state?
I think that the question ought to be: What there ever a nation Israel? And the answer is Israel as a nation only exists because of the account of Holy texts.

Israel is indeed a dynasty. The Israelites/Israelis are the descendants of Israel, a grandson of Abraham, to whom the promise in Genesis 15:18-21 was allegedly made. And the question here becomes: Did the God of Creation make this promise to Abraham? Check-out:

Palestine, Israel and God - http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2797028/palestine_israel_and_god.html?cat=37 
           
 
menofit
replied to: Lafrique
Replied To:  I think that the question ought to be: What there ever a nation Isr...
Dear Lafrique, your declaration that "Israel as a nation only exists because of the account of Holy texts" is not true. In the account of the Holy Texts one can find the story about the creation of this nation. The fact that there was an "Israelu State" untill the year 70ac can not be disputed. All you have to do is to travel to Rome and look at the Titus Gate that still stands at the Forum Romanum there. It tells you that the Roman army conquered the area and defeated the Jews and took all the treasures from the Holy Tample etc etc. You can see there enough pictures engraved on the pillar of the gate. The modern State of Israel is the result of the continuity of the dreams of the Jews to return to their land. These aspirations where finally succeeded with the efforts of the Zionist movement that started in the 19th century and the UN declaration in 1947. Between 70 and 1947 Jews remained the majority in the land and tried, more than once, to establish statehood but Christians and later Muslim armies prevented it from happening. So-called "Palestine" never existed as a state. The Romans came up with this name in order to erase the memory of the Jewish kingdom after the "great rebelion" of Jews against them. In fact "Palestine" was the land of the Philistines, Greek people who setteled along the Mediterranean coast where today's Gaza is. Israel does not need to justify its rights. It is the Palestinians who must do it
           
 
Privateer
replied to: ramadan
Replied To:  Of course yes, before 1917 it was the arab palestinian country at t...
Obviously, the British had no right to say the occupants of the area at that time must cede their right to live there to Jews (if in fact that was what happened).
           
 
ramadan
replied to: menofit
Replied To:  Was there ever a palestinian state?
Please i want one definition about what happened the last monday(31-5-2010)to the freedom ships that was holding the aids to Gaza civilians.
In my opinion this just means one thing ISRAEL IS THE TERRORIEM AROUND ALL THE WORLD,SO ISRAEL IS A TERRORISM TEAM NOT A STATE AS YOU WANT TO SEE,DO YOU UNDERSTAND,I HOPE SO.
           
 
lehmann520
replied to: ramadan
Replied To:  Please i want one definition about what happened the last monday(31...
The so called freedom ships had little to do with freedom. They were funded by IHH and Free Gaza, both terrorist organizations. Cyprus refused to allow these ships to dock in that country because it didn't want to become involved in a terrorist activity. The government of Turkey has publicly condemned the IHH as a terrorist org after raiding the offices of the company and finding weapons, bombs and bomb making stuff. Free Gaza is funded by Code Pink,,,an American anti military org and people that are known American terrorists from the sixties and seventies...namely the Ayers(Mr and Mrs)

Egypt offered to let these ships dock in Egypt to off load their humanitarian cargo. The convoy declined the offer. Israel offered to let the ships off load in that country and ship the humanitarian cargo into Gaza. They were declined. The Red Cross has access to Gaza and would gladly ship the humanitarian cargo into Gaza if asked. They were not asked.
The ships insisted on docking IN GAZA.THey refused to be inspected or boarded.
The Israelis boarded the vessel carrying PAINT BALL GUNS. They were attacked and beaten with metal pipes and chains. One man was thrown over the side and suffered brain damage. They opened fire in self defense.
Perhaps you have not seen the video of this. You should go looking or maybe turn on Fox for a few minutes during a broadcast or check their web site. The Media is not telling you the whole story if you have not seen this footage.
Israel is not a terrorist country, it is a sovereign one. It has a right to defend itself from threats. Egypt defends itself from the nutbags in Gaza too, but I don't hear you condemning them.The walls go ALL THE WAY AROUND the place. I only wish it were bigger then we could dump all nutbags in there and forget about them.
           
 
Herakles
replied to: menofit
Replied To:  Was there ever a palestinian state?
The Jews invaded Palestine about 1300 B.C.And consequently they had to give it up in the 2nd century(Law of Karma).
Jews were a tiny tribe of bandites and herds.
They showed no interest in Palestine,until they found out that
the land is full of gold and urane.
"There is no such thing as "a chosen nation".The Jews have no right whatsoever to invade the area.
           
 
Ytongs
replied to: Herakles
Replied To:  The Jews invaded Palestine about 1300 B.C.And consequently they had...
Oh dear oh dear,

You can argue ancient history all you like BUT, the British government could not resolve this issue after the second world war so sent the problem to arbitration, that is the UN.
Every country in the world had a say, this was voted upon and the majority agreed to divide the region up roughly as the pre 1967 borders. Voila!
I'm not interested in anything else. That's it. Do it and lets get on with living.
That is how you resolve disputes.
Only problem is that the arabs don't (and will never I suspect) agree.
This is unacceptable after the highest court in the world has decreed otherwise.
You can argue subterfuge here or suicide bombings there but these are EFFECTS of the conflict not the CAUSE. There cannot be many conflicts in the history of the world where both sides are lilly white!!
So to me these things are distractions from the root cause.

To the arabs I say get real and negotiate a proper settlement and recognise Israel's right to exist(this point is the biggest example of racism I can think of...all this because they are Jews!!).
To the people of Israel I say stop building on the West bank and respect the 1967 borders.
Good luck to both.
           
 
question12345
replied to: ramadan
Replied To:  Please i want one definition about what happened the last monday(31...
Wrong; The ships contained weapons. Every country has a right to inspect every ship which comes to its ports for illegal weapons and illegal drugs. The freedom ships were NOT carrying aid to the Gaza civilians , as you suggest.

They were fakers , frauds and con artist.

A real aid ship does NOT carry weapons to give to Gaza civilians.
           
 
Explorer72
replied to: ramadan
Replied To:  First of all about the historical view: The first people came to t...
Menofit answered your question thoroughly and clearly. Now that you have nothing to counter his facts with, you're just falling back on your rantings. There was NEVER A PALESTINIAN STATE.
           
 
Explorer72
replied to: Ytongs
Replied To:  Oh dear oh dear, You can argue ancient history all you like BUT,...
*APPLAUSE* *APPLAUSE* *APPLAUSE*

Very well said!! And that comes from someone who loves ancient history...and who also loves European history.

You cut right to the heart of the matter.

           
 
AlyHusseiny
replied to: ramadan
Replied To:  So my dear friend, where is israel before that date?
Exactly,That's the question?
           
 
Explorer72
replied to: AlyHusseiny
Replied To:  Exactly,That's the question?
BLANK
           
 
Explorer72
replied to: AlyHusseiny
Replied To:  Exactly,That's the question?
The question has been answered completely by Menofits and Ytongs. In very easy to understand English. The point has been made. There was never a Palestinian state at any time in history. Are you deliberately choosing not to understand because the answer that you got i.e. the TRUTH leaves you with nothing to complain about? Or do you simply not want to admit that you and millions of your countrymen have wasted so much time and energy over a total non-issue?