Ultimate fate of the universe
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replied to:  littlebang
TyphoonSeason
Replied to:  Brotherunknown,,an interesting take on the state of the universe . So...
Little Bang, I did reply to your post but it has yet to appear upon the forum, I stated that it was patently obvious that you were an Athiest without your stating thus and in my position, I am a Christian and a realist. I do not judge your beliefs as I do not have the right and respect your point of view and would ask only if there is anyone whom can truly, unequivocally, define INFINITY. That is the main point behind SPACE and whilst many may try, I doubt any single one would come close to a satisfactory definition that the man in the street could put in his pocket and take away with him safe in the knowledge that he now knows his place in the bigger picture. This will never happen for as you speak of proof positive of the BIG BANG and other matters, I simply ask what is that proof, it is but supposition at the extreme best. Some may question the "AGE" situation where we have the three givens, BIRTH/DEATH/TAXES. Why is it thus, why is it that the Crocodile survived the Dinosaur and the Great White Shark? Why were they spared. All quite basic questions but none the less essential in order to grasp our place in the scheme of things. Given an ageless limit, travel into the farest reaches of space and beyond will forever remain an unanswered fact that we simply have to live with.
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replied to:  TyphoonSeason
littlebang
Replied to:  Little Bang, I did reply to your post but it has...
Typhoon,,thank you for your honesty .and yes I had presumed you as a supporter of the BBT would be religious .
Now the easy question , why did the crocodile and the great white shark survive when the dinosaur didn't , obvious , they were in the water , eating all the dead bodies that kept appearing on the shore and floating out to sea .
Why did we survive ,we were the rats and mice of the dinosaur period , living in holes in the ground,, which is how we escaped the fires and destruction of the worlds animals and plant life. we could survive on roots and insects that lived under ground. So as a christian how do you deal with the reality , that the world is 4 billion years old , and that evolution was how we came to be . Do you just pretend it's not real and the scientists are lying???
What do you accept about science and do you challenge some of the religious fundamentalists that you would normally meet as a christian???
As an Atheist I challenge the science that makes no sense to me,,do you challenge the religion that makes no sense to you???
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replied to:  littlebang
TyphoonSeason
Replied to:  Typhoon,,thank you for your honesty .and yes I had presumed you...
Hi again LB. I state clearly that I am a religious but being born as a Catholic, I subscribe to no practising faith simply because of the reasons you make so obvious in your message. I question every single belief that they promote for fear that they will declare you as being ex-communicated from the "Church". No sir, not when so many of the freaking creeps are praying upon small children and all the while wearing the good "back to front" collar. You can colour me out of any argument about the "start" regards religion as I do not subscribe to them in the least. The only one that I do subscribe to is that there had to be someone there to "strike the match" in the first place, no more, no less. God, it is said made but 10 commandments for man to live by, the Catholic church has laid down in excess of 50K of their own to complicate the formula further. What, are they greater than the supposed creator? They appear to believe so. I hope that answers your question concerning due credence to the Scientists. They have their beliefs and I will respect them always. I do not promote my beliefs as the only ones, indeed, I state categorically that they are questionable at best (aren't they all, every single thread of them no matter whose they are?) I respect your right along with every other persons to believe in what you might and for mine, I will do the same. Tolerance is a must in a world so absolutely over flowing with spite.
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replied to:  littlebang
brotherunknown
Replied to:  Brotherunknown,,an interesting take on the state of the universe . So...
Little Bang:

Imagine that you live on the 2-dimensional surface of an expanding balloon. You are aware only of events that take place on this surface. You are blissfully unaware of the events that take place in the much larger 3-dimensional universe.

Galaxies collide all the time. Such collisions do not produce a "little bang."

There is no "bang" associated with the "big bang."
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replied to:  brotherunknown
littlebang
Replied to:  Little Bang: Imagine that you live on the 2-dimensional surface...
Ok Bro,,so how many black holes does it take to make a bang , all of the matter in the known universe would be I suppose the most obvious answer. There must be some critical mass required to reach the bang point. Do we know for certain that all we see in the night sky is of the BB , why could there not be some old planets and asteroids that are just part of the mix because they were here when the bang happened???
When you talked about the much larger Universe , and you havn't answered my question as to how big the "Larger Universe " is .Could this larger universe have flung some asteroids and rubble our way and it got into the mix after our wee bang???
If this larger universe is also expanding , when will it expand into us???.When will we expand into it???
As you can tell I don't know much about astronomy , thats why I'm here!!!
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replied to:  desmonde
sayorajfar
Replied to:  Ever since the days of astronomer Edwin Hubble's ground-based telescope observations,...
Hi i'm sayor ajfar and id like to reply to desmond's fact.
Yeah,you're absolutely right that universe began in the big bang and it is expanding.But I don't think that the universe will stop or turn around. I think that millions of years later from now the pull of the expansion of the universe will
tear everything in the cosmos apart and thus the universe will end and I think this will be called big crunch.But I dont think we might be able to see it because the sun will die before that happens and if the sun dies then earth is doomed and we will all die.
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replied to:  desmonde
junheng11
Replied to:  Ever since the days of astronomer Edwin Hubble's ground-based telescope observations,...
The sun will explode after it loses its heat energy, smashing into earth with its deadly steaming asteroids.

That's what I think.
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replied to:  junheng11
littlebang
Replied to:  The sun will explode after it loses its heat energy, smashing...
I believe the sun will expand ,as it loses energy it loses gravity , which holds it in the size it is so as the gravity is reduced the size increases , and the earth will swollowed up by this expanding sun.
And our galaxy won't be there all by itself in billions of years , we will have smashed into Andromeda by then and there will be at least two galaxies caught in a deadly game of spiral into the black hole.
To suggest the there will be a big rip and the universe will tear apart and this will be the end , is about as believable as there was a beginning , not believable at all.
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replied to:  littlebang
florian
Replied to:  I believe the sun will expand ,as it loses energy it...
Wrong forum, this is "Ultimate fate of the universe" not "Ultimate fate of our solar system"
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replied to:  littlebang
TyphoonSeason
Replied to:  I believe the sun will expand ,as it loses energy it...
I am with Little Bang on this one - I feel reasonably sure, personally that at best our musings can be at best supposition and our Sun will be a distant memory by the time anything extraordinary affecte our neighbourhood in any dramatic manner. I have just posted a 'statement' on Sky & Telescope about an article that the moon is shrinking and they have a photo to prove it with an Escarpment just as we know them here on Earth. We know that the Moon is slipping very gently away from us annually and to me, that is proof positive that some day some where in the future, what we can now see will be a distant memory, what will remain? Well, I am pretty sure that as space is infinity and as infinity, some other phenomenon will occur and who knows, possibly a rebirth of 'SOMETHING' in due course. We could very simply be replaced and who knows, we may very well have replaced someone else in our own history.
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replied to:  desmonde
finalsquall
Replied to:  Ever since the days of astronomer Edwin Hubble's ground-based telescope observations,...
Buddha was born to provide a good explanation of the universe.
For more information please click http://www.buddha-god.com
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replied to:  finalsquall
TyphoonSeason
Replied to:  Buddha was born to provide a good explanation of the universe....
Respectfully, whom makes Budda an authority on the universe. He was a mortal man and as such is certainly no solver of the enigma by my standards. I doubt that there is ANYONE whom can give a definitive answer with PROOF POSITIVE that solves the matter for once and for all and certainly, it will not be a mortal as we are but frail animals in the greater scheme of things. It took the human some several thousand years to arrive at a point where we could finally admit that the Earth was round, during that time, Budda arrived on the scene (was it not 1400's) and he has the answer to all that everyone else cannot resolve in the 21st century with computers as big as houses or as small as a coin? I wish not to mock your belief in Budda but again, he was merely a mortal - never forget that. He did not even possess a Telescope.
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replied to:  TyphoonSeason
littlebang
Replied to:  Respectfully, whom makes Budda an authority on the universe. He was...
Typhoonseason, a mere mortal,
The way you say that would suggest there is another type.
We are all mortal , immortality has yet to be proven,
and until it is I will presume "mortal "is all we have.
So accepting that jesus, buddha , profit mohamad, etc are all mortal , which are you going to say is the reality.
I would say science and Atheism.
Since we are having to rely on mortals,
We might as well trust those who have base their belief on facts and figures rather than faith and mythology,
Logic and reason instead of superstition and here-say.
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replied to:  littlebang
TyphoonSeason
Replied to:  Typhoonseason, a mere mortal, The way you say that would...
Ah, my friend 'Little Bang'; I am betting that you are also a very keen angler for you cast your bait with abandon. You are there in the mix waiting for anyone to say anything you can grasp upon and take to task as if it apparently runs against the current of your own beliefs. I have often told you that I respect your beliefs and ask but simply that you respect mine. I did not, at any stage call Budda a mere mortal, if you read again, I actually said that he was merely a mortal - meaning he was no different to you, myself, or any other of the animal we choose to call "I". My inference being that if he could profess to be capable of explaining all concerning the universe (without even owning a Telescope) then he was indeed a very bold man for he existed during a time when anyone the establishment considered as a radical was immediately put to death for unconsionable statements. I have NEVER mentioned "GOD", "JESUS" or anyone else for that matter in my portion of this debate other than the late "BUDDA" and only then because his disciple said that "BUDDA" had all the answers surrounding our Universe, a point I question with great sincerity. If we happen to portend to some fragments of history, now that it has been raised by yourself (not me, mind) that Jesus was seen by the authorities as a threat to their Power and as such, he had to be set up to die in order to remove the threat. However, he is quoted as saying during his tenure that "IN MY FATHERS KINGDOM, THERE ARE MANY MANSIONS". He was noted for speaking in parables but I would like to see some logical explanation to that one from any one whom would care to give it a try. We have INFINITY as our door stoop, what if way the heck out there, we had distant cousins and what have you whom were possibly once; previously; snails or frogs or lizards and such?
Just remember, I did not bring any of the above into this debate other than mention of the aforementioned "BUDDA".
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replied to:  desmonde
Museatlantis
Replied to:  Ever since the days of astronomer Edwin Hubble's ground-based telescope observations,...
My theory is the universe started at the point it was about to end. The universe is on a loop. Im not saying time is on a loop but the universe is.
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replied to:  sayorajfar
RickyV
Replied to:  Hi i'm sayor ajfar and id like to reply to desmond's...
I think this topic is great, but lost its goal of the fate of the universe. So here i go:

@sayorajfar
What is this big crunsh (don't you mean big rip) anyway? Because objects will be moving so fast (at the end) that the force of gravity wont hold or that because of the energy of the ‘pull’ will be greater then the forces that hold the atoms together so they will fall apart?
If that ‘pull’ is caused by gravitation, then shouldn’t the source of the ‘pull’ be increasing in mass all the time?
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replied to:  RickyV
sayorajfar
Replied to:  I think this topic is great, but lost its goal of...
I'll just say that there are two ways in which the universe may get destroyed .First way is that while the universe is expanding one day because of the force of gravity it will reverse and it will start to contract and the other way is the one I mentioned before both of which can be called big crunch or god can just destroy the universe in a second after everyone dies.
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replied to:  sayorajfar
TyphoonSeason
Replied to:  I'll just say that there are two ways in which the...
I agree with one commentator who replied that we appear to have departed the crux of the original discussion. I have mentioned this in passing in one of my earlier posts to this forum. Science is full of theories and theories depend upon the person formulating to convince his liteners that he speaks a valid argument. My theory is that we have discused the BIG BANG to he point of exhaustion. Theorising, I say that OUR BIG BANG was but one of many, many BIG BANGS. The Earth goes through four seasons (generally and I say that advisedly because equatorial regions have 7 seasons every year). Why not the Universe. Our BIG BANG could have and most likely was one of but MILLIONS OF BIG BANGS passed and into the future. Stars die all of the time and new stars are born to replace them. Nebulae are STAR NURSERIES creating STARS just the way human Nurseries turn out babies (so to say). Man, with his THREE SCORE AND TEN is but a very minor player in the greater picture. As I said, we theorise and then attempt to convince our disciples that our word is good, it is great. The fact is that we know no more about this matter now than when mankind first dabbled into the science of creation. We only have theories. Now you know mine, one BIG BANG makes for another BIG BANG and so it goes on into infinity - there is no beginning, there is no end. Only (for us) NOW!
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replied to:  TyphoonSeason
hullabulla
Replied to:  I agree with one commentator who replied that we appear to...
I personally think the Earth has a big timer on it, and when it feels nececarry, it kills whatever it feels it needs to. The dinosaurs died and soon it will be our turn.
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replied to:  hullabulla
TyphoonSeason
Replied to:  I personally think the Earth has a big timer on it,...
Personally, I consider yours as good a theory as any other and why not some big NUMBER ONE dispensing things to his pleasure (and all others demise). Hang on - 'Houston, we have a problem'. What about the Cockroaches, Alliagators, Crocodiles, Monitor Lizards, et al. These date along with the Dinosaurs, one wonders why the BIG BANANA spared them and not the others, they are amphians so they require air to survive. Oh, well, back to the theorising mind set. Damn, I thought we were onto something there.
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replied to:  Streona
sagittariuslibra
Replied to:  I am not sure about the "Big Rip" ? Would this...
Atmosphere of the 6th Reich or the so-called Heaven


As we have put together our collection of our Polynesian Oral History- Tonga in particular there are elements of such fairy tale that has made available our Cocoanut Amateur Scientist to piece the puzzle in literacy to means of physics and science regarding 2012 and as we are preparing for the Greatest Mass Exodus- notably only the Children of Israel which metaphorically means Gay Men and Lesbian. Apart from that is any heterosexual man (Gentile) who can make the change warns Nostradamus and the Bible

Such Flux Vortex or the Atmosphere of the 6th Reich will be in an Inert Atmosphere of Argon, Neon, Helium, Krypton, Xenon and Radon.

Noble Gases- INERT Atmosphere
Argon density 1.784 g/l ; melting point -182º Celsius; boiling point -185.7º Celsius
Neon density 0.9002 g/l; melting point – -248.67º Celsius; boiling point -245.92º Celsius
Helium density 0.1785 g/l; melting point -272.2º Celsius; boiling point – 268.9º Celsius
Krypton density 3.736 g/l; melting point -156.6º Celsius; boiling point- 152.9º Celsius
Xenon density 5.887 g/l; melting point -111.9º Celsius; boiling point -107.1º Celsius
Radon density 9.72 g/l; melting point --71º Celsius; boiling point -68º Celsius

This inert atmosphere counteracts gravity as the dense Sun is released or sucked in to the Blackhole “Twistor” the same time the Spiraling Sgr A* Flux Vortex or the LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS is locked on the Tonga Microplate (Hamongog Ezekiel 39:15- median) which. The Reverse of the Electromagnetic Poles ( Revelation 20 ;08 Gog and Magog) releases the Strong Force Core by an explosive departure leaving the Earth Scared in an Oval Shape like Planet Mars millions of years ago, and Water extracted. The Oval Shape of the Cross of Hendaye in France and the Oval Tongan Ancient Fales or Houses are notable the Shape of the Earth after the last black hole Sgr A* in Gemini Position May 2013.

The Oval Shape is kind of a Polynesian Prediction also Nostradamus has the Same prediction. What we learn from Mars is the same Oval Shape Planet. But what we know is our indication that the shape of the world will be that way. To match that with Mars is we are still finding out how it is theorized to happen that way.
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replied to:  desmonde
sunbeemer984
Replied to:  Ever since the days of astronomer Edwin Hubble's ground-based telescope observations,...
I believe you have to think outside the box on this one to find a simple solution to what at first seems an over complicated subject. The thing that boggles everyones mind is how could there be nothing and then something - like the big bang comes along from this nothing and then not only that if this universe that was created from the big bang is expanding what is it expanding into.

An answer that might solve this problem is that there is our interpretation of time and there is universal time.

Universal time is like a heartbeat it expands and retracts all the time IE goes forward as far as it physically can do then it goes into reverse and goes back in time to the point of the big bang then starts all over again.

The actual bang itself is the final collision of all the singularities that will have ever existed via blackholes reversing in on themselves to the point of time beginning again.

How we physically fit in to this forward and back in time is hard to say but im having deyjavu just typing this.

Mark G
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replied to:  boo8
olusteve
Replied to:  I believe the fate of the Universe is controlled by its...
Hey, when was earth created and what could probably be the earth age?
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replied to:  olusteve
CODank
Replied to:  Hey, when was earth created and what could probably be the...
Around 4 billion years ago. expected life span is 8 billion due to our suns fate. which will engulph the earth in its planetary nebula. thats when the sun swells up to over three times its size and exaughsting its outer layer leaving only a white dwarf.
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replied to:  ravigopal
tdk1854
Replied to:  Hai, my name is gopal studing tenth class in narsapur. i...
It seems obvious to me that yes energy can travel through space look at what the big bang did! My thought about the big bang is that it was Gods big bang and it was for his creation! what do you think?
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replied to:  littlebang
tdk1854
Replied to:  Typhoonseason, a mere mortal, The way you say that would...
I was always told that budda was a wood carving or an idol carved from the hands of man there first had to be earth in order for a tree to grow so a man could carve the image of budda budda did not create any thing except wamth from a fire after it was sat on fire! I have no doubt however that
God created this universe and He and only He is in charge of its fate. I do not rely on any mortal or wood carving; my trust is in Jesus Christ the one true son of God who defies all logic,reason,superstition and here-say.
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replied to:  sagittariuslibra
tdk1854
[POST DELETED]
Very respectfuly you must be a little crazy!
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replied to:  desmonde
stephenmann35
Replied to:  Ever since the days of astronomer Edwin Hubble's ground-based telescope observations,...
I've seen some strange speculation in this debate but I admit this topic tries one's reason. I think the universe is what astronomers say it is except that they are puzzled too about what and why it will be. "Dark Energy" is said to push galaxies apart while "Dark Matter" explains rapidly rotating galaxies.

Against this, I think magnetism both explains their rapid rotations and mutual repulsion. Stars are part of a galaxy's magnetic field and magnetism is a force stronger than gravity; therefore, it has a greater ability to accelerate them. But outside this field, repulsion to other galaxies occurs because their magnetic fields are opposed to each other- this is because their north-south alignments aren't inverted to each other.

Magnets aren't complimentary unless "norths" face "souths"; this only happens if they're inverted. The Milky Way and Andromeda must be because they move towards each other. Otherwise, most galaxies in the area of our "Local Group" aren't and flee us and each other. The Milky Way and Andromeda must have repelled each other for a time until they inverted and thence must have reversed and now will eventually merge.

Therefore, my solution to why expansion occurs is that magnetism is stronger than gravity except when it neutralizes itself through polar inversion (in this case, of galaxies). If the latter, gravity reasserts control.

Then our problem of "Missing Mass" must be confronted: this was proposed when our universe was thought to expand and contract itself through eternity and, because it expanded faster than its observed mass ever could re-contract it, the universe was thought to have missing mass. Then this was compounded by too rapidly rotating galaxies and too rapidly orbiting ones (around clusters). Gravitational lensing did indicate galaxies have extra mass, as well- although not enough to halt the universe's expansion.

A simple explanation for this is to propose that our universe will expand forever but that another will form somewhere else because ours is part of a meta-universe. Ours is a stone thrown into a pond, the ripples from which will eventually dissipate until the "missing mass" of the meta-universe rebounds into another. Eventually, super-massive Black Holes might fall into each other to accumulate enough mass to force Spacetime to rebound into another "Big Bang". Perhaps our meta-universe even has more than one stone thrown into it at once.

But what is important to realize is that universes may recur even if ours doesn't.

Steve
Stephenmann35@yahoo.com
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replied to:  littlebang
brotherunknown
Replied to:  Brotherunknown,,an interesting take on the state of the universe . So...
Imagine you live in Flatland, a 2-dimensional universe, stretching in seemingly endless fashion in both directions. You may see footprints appear but you will never see the 3D creatures that created them.

We are confined to a 4-dimensional universe stretching in seemingly endless fashion in three spatial and one temporal direction. Nine-tenths or more of this universe (the dark part) consists of cross-sections of external-to-our-universe pathways. The interesting part (to us) is confined to the light-emitting super-clusters of galaxies.
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replied to:  desmonde
Schalk
Replied to:  Ever since the days of astronomer Edwin Hubble's ground-based telescope observations,...
The theory of the expanding universe is based on the discovery by Hubble "that the redshift of distant galaxies increased as a linear function of their distance".
Galaxy A being 3,000,000 light years from us is seen to moving away from us at a greater velocity than Galaxy B which is 300,000 light years away from us.
However, Galaxy A's velocity was true 3,000,000 years ago. The question is what is it's velocity relative to earth at this point in time? The same question pertains to galaxy B - what is its velocity relative to earth at this point in time? It would appear that the galaxies are moving away from us at a decreasing velocity as the approach us in space and therefore in time.
Everybody seems to be agreed on the slowdown of the expamsion as would be expected from the effect of gravity after an initial volocity caused by a once-off burst of energy. The question to resolve here would seem to be which of the three possibilities pertains, an open, flat or closed universe. Are the first two at all possible if the initial burst was self-generated, so to speak?
The most probable would seem to be a closed universe.
And if it is, we would not be able to observe it as the turning point would have happened somewhere in the past at a time we are not yet able to observe as the light waves bearing the information have not yet reached us.
A possible clue coud be the fact that the earth's orbital time is slowly decreasing.
When a balloon is blown up, the size of a circle on the surface will increase as the balloon expands and decrease as it collapses.
If the earth's orbital time is decreasing two things could be happening, the length of the orbit is decreasing and the earth's orbital velocity would need to increase for it to stay in orbit.
Atomic time measurements rely on atomic pulsations which would be changing by the same token. This would interfere with our ability to correctly evaluate the changes.
Just a thought.
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replied to:  Schalk
littlebang
Replied to:  The theory of the expanding universe is based on the discovery...
There are many problems with the idea that the rate of expansion is accelerating .
What is driving it would be the first question .
But I think the cycle of life would be broken if everything just kept going .
Faster and faster until , it reached the speed of light , whats that Einstein ,not possible ,would all matter then become light??? ,.
Lets imagine this is just another cycle in the never ending cycles of the birth and rebirth of the Universe .
Were going to have to recycle our rubbish .
We need all that junk to form the new Universe with .
So bring it back , bring it all back and lets just go bang again ...
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replied to:  littlebang
cows4dinner
Replied to:  Brotherunknown,,an interesting take on the state of the universe . So...
I think all this scientificl stuff is just stupid,because i KNOW that the lord jesus christ is behind it all if you dont beleave that then just wait untill the world blows up
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replied to:  cows4dinner
littlebang
Replied to:  I think all this scientificl stuff is just stupid,because i KNOW...
I get the feeling you are in the wrong forum ,cows4 .
and I can see your grasp of logic is about zero ,
"the world blows up"?? jesus christ was picked to be the next dalia Lama . By a bunch of budhists , the three wise men , is a budhist tradition . Christianity didn't find their guru's that way . Unless you have some grasp of science , go and find a church group who may be interested , because we , and I speak for most here , ARE NOT INTERESTED .
Back to the fate of the universe .
If the rate of expansion is accelerating then everything would eventually reach the speed of light and then some , which according to main stream science is impossible .
So they can't have it both ways .
Either things can and do go faster than the speed of light , or the rate of expansion is not accelerating .!!!
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replied to:  brotherunknown
RayeJay425
Replied to:  Our universe is a 4D cross-section of a much larger universe....
It's amazing about how much the scientists knw about our universe, don'y you think?
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replied to:  scbrow
FOUAD
Replied to:  I think a better explanation for the accelerating expansion of our...
22FEB11
Reply of sorts:
Other universes out there.....
Perhaps and any so called life form
always depictedas dangerous and ready
to attack. Yes, that part is fearsome
to say the least. But, what if there
is NO other universee out there?
We may be theonly ones in all existence.
To me that is fearsome and what will be
the fate of human existence when the earth
is no more. And, as for thes forms of life
on earth, I ask with Wm Blake: "Tiger, Tiger
burning bright, who could form thy symetry?"
Yes, indeed, WHO?


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replied to:  desmonde
schonovic
Replied to:  Ever since the days of astronomer Edwin Hubble's ground-based telescope observations,...
I really don't believe that. it just doesn't jibe with the natural tendency of things to run in cycles. i think that the universe also runs in cycles and the big bang was just part of a larger cycle that perpetuates the existence of the universe.
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replied to:  Ritwik
Christain456
Replied to:  Hey, i just dont believe this "BIG BANG" theory. its weird...
I agree, i do not think that all of the universe was caused by an explosion, how could a bodie like ours and other animals that are so advanced and functional bcaused by a big bang?
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replied to:  hullabulla
austin2
Replied to:  I personally think the Earth has a big timer on it,...
I disagree, i do beleave that there will be a day when every thing gos to hell but i dont beleave it will intierly be the earths falt the mane cause was all together ower falts for poluting the atmuspher and killing the one place we all live in. so its everyones falt if the world ends.
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replied to:  littlebang
sponge
Replied to:  I get the feeling you are in the wrong forum ,cows4...
Steady littlebang. Don't tread too heavily on another man's dream. Seems to me that's the wonderful thing about a discussion on a topic like this - nobody can be proved entirely and comprehensively wrong. And, perhaps even better, in the event (whatever it might be) it's not gonna affect a single one of us.

I admire your clear-thinking and logical train of thought and, of all the arguments so far, would most agree with your appraisal of the available facts.

Personally, though, I like to leave a little room for Intuition.
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replied to:  blixems99
gsweeney
Replied to:  If i can be so bold as to ask.. Can we...
Your last question is intriguing...."what do we find at the end of space???

Suppose...that space goes on forever - there is no limit to its size.
I find this concept one of the most difficult to envisage.

Space going on forever, no limit! Western thinking, rational thinking cannot envisage such a situation.

Mind boggling!
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replied to:  gsweeney
duanebrown
Replied to:  Your last question is intriguing...."what do we find at the end...
If it's ok with all you smart people, I would like to take a step in the other direction. My question is this.1)If there was a BB where did it occure? 2)Have we looked for this point in space? 3)what's there now.
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replied to:  gsweeney
schonovic
Replied to:  Your last question is intriguing...."what do we find at the end...
Wow,
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replied to:  schonovic
paradigm
Replied to:  Wow,
For "gravity pulls in space-time, read gravity is caused by the absorption of emission and this occurs within the context of the increasing density of impacting emission.

The Ultimate Paradigm of Science specifies how everything across cosmology and biology is constructed and evolves.

This is presented in the essay located at: http://home.spin.net.au/paradigm/cosmo.pdf

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replied to:  desmonde
anura
Replied to:  Ever since the days of astronomer Edwin Hubble's ground-based telescope observations,...
There is a big difference from what you see with physical matter observations and theories thereby and from what you don't see of the non-physical. 1. What is non-physical is 99.9999999999999999999--9% of the universe call it whatever name one wants dark matter, dark energy etc and so on maybe more suitable(as humans always fall back on the concept when unknown)God matter or god energy. but in ultimate truth there is no single empty place in the universe or anywhere. its all filled with unseen and non-physical you can't call it matter or energy dark or whatever bcos it doesnt fall into any of those and cannot be or never be observed with instruments made out of physical matter. it is only the after effects that will be shown in changes in physical matter.

2. The universe is not expanding & there never was a big-bang and there never will. its an illusion or an after effect of a combination of movements that one can observe that led to all those. but it is a relative observation from where you observe from with what you do that. when one do not know the mechanism of all movements what is observed and theorized therefrom is just a relative truth until it is proven otherwise. all theories in physical science is like that(look at the history.
Its a long story to explain these realities of the universe in ultimate truth. ask me if one is wise enough. a person with who knows all the current knowledge of the physics is a better person for me to explain these things with the use of his/her own examples that will lead to no doubt when the unexplained is answered., ask questions I will let you all open yourself like blooming flowers
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replied to:  anura
schonovic
Replied to:  There is a big difference from what you see with physical...
we can't physically touch it doesn't mean it should be so inexplicable, i understand it, it cycles.
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replied to:  schonovic
anura
Replied to:  we can't physically touch it doesn't...
Great. pls. ask if you have a question. Yes. There exists many cycles. but in the sense of universe & matter and so forth. it is in a cycle from non-physical to physical and from physical to non-physical and unimaginable great energies(conventional term used)involved with such changes(nuclear energy is nothing compared). nothing remains in a stationary state even for a moment. things just appear(not real)to be static at a given range of time(in certain cases even thousands of years is so small to observe)bcos of the great ages of these cycles.
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replied to:  dgg1965
anura
Replied to:  Sorry about the accidental save... Anyway what i was trying to...
You are absolutely correct about the fate of a galaxy. when the matter which is the fuel for the black hole is over,it is death to the black hole itself. there is nothing to roam the space as all physical matter is converted to non-physical matter. There is no limit to a size of a black hole as long as physical matter is attracted to it. Two or more black holes can combine too to form huge ones. There is no limit to universe & matter(physical and non_physical). so do you wanna know what drives these cycles?? Well you have to SEE it.
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replied to:  olusteve
anura
Replied to:  Hey, when was earth created and what could probably be the...
Beings(life)or YOU are much older than the physcial universe you see today. See within and all answers are there..
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replied to:  tdk1854
anura
Replied to:  I was always told that budda was a wood carving or...
Jesus was a follower of the Buddha's teachings. get your hands on the dead-sea scrolls and just visit where Nalanda(India) University was during his time. and collect your facts and judge. GOD is a man made concept to conveniently cover up the Unknown and fear of the unknown. so even today that same word is used to ignore and go on with life when one has no answer to unkonwn. but the reality is different.
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replied to:  littlebang
anura
Replied to:  There are many problems with the idea that the rate of...
LIFE my friend is very much older than the physical universe we see today. it is only the matter that is recycled but not the life. ok, question. can life exist without matter? YES.
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