Islam

Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, "Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you." 39 But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nin'eveh will arise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Mathew 12 (38-41)

1- Will someone kindly explain his 'sign'please?
2- Why did Jesus call them 'evil' and 'adulterous'before he replied?

Silent,

Verse 38
Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, Teacher, we would see a sign from thee.
This arrogant request came from a group who had already accused Jesus of being in league with the devil and who had already seen signs aplenty; but in this case, they were demanding a sign of their own choosing. Luke stated that they sought a "sign from heaven" (Luke 11:16). By that, they no doubt meant some spectacular wonder without moral value but which would appeal sensationally to a man's curiosity. Christ always rejected that type of sign, as, for example, when he refused to jump from the pinnacle of the temple (Matthew 4:6). In fact, there is more than a suggestion that the Pharisees' request for a sign was but a renewal of Satan's temptation of the Lord in the wilderness. Christ always refused to perform wonders for his enemies like Herod or the Pharisees. He did work miracles for the benefit of John's disciples (Luke 7:18-22), and raised Lazarus that the people might believe (John 11:42). For more on "a sign from heaven," see under Matthew 16:1. *Coffman,

Verse 39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet.
The "adulterous generation" refers not merely to the morals of the people but to the rejection of Israel's covenant with their God. *Barnes wrote:


The relation of the Jews to God was represented as a marriage contract with God as the husband and the Jewish people as his wife (Isa. 57:3; Hosea 3:1; Ezek. 16:15). Hence, their apostasy and idolatry are often represented as adultery. *F11
The "sign of the prophet Jonah" refers to the resurrection of Christ, the greatest and most wonderful miracle of all time. Jesus' announcement of this "sign" at that time was actually a prophecy of his death, burial and resurrection. The Old Testament had plainly indicated the Messiah would rise from the dead (Psalms 16:10); but, in keeping with his usual methods, Christ again laid claim to Messiahship, but in such terminology, and in such analogies, that his enemies would not see it, or if they did, would be unable to prove what he meant!


* Coffman>James Burton. "Commentary on Matthew 12". "Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament".


*F 11: Albert Barnes, Barnes' Notes (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1954), p. 134.
Mike

Thanks Mike...So does it mean Jesus remained ALIVE in the grave just like JONAH survived in the whale...obviously he was not 'resurrected' in its true sense?

Silent,

I suppose you would say that the father son relationship between Abraham and Isaac was not the same inference as the father and son relationship of Christ and his father. In either case with Abraham or Jonah neither one could guarantee the purification of sins by dying. Right! Christ never sinned unlike Isaac or Jonah! Death would be necessary for compliance with purification for sins and only because Christ was innocent and sinless does this fulfill Isaiah 53 which shows this clearly yet you disregard this part of Isaiah as corrupted.
Muslim's claim that Isaiah 42 is a prophecy of Muhammad. Yet Isaiah 53 is one of the foremost prophecies of the crucifixion of Christ in the entire Old Testament. On what basis do you feel Isaiah 42 is uncorrupted which prophecies Muhammad, but Isaiah 53 is corrupted that prophesies the crucifixion of Christ? Are you kidding me! Do you think that I or anyone who is looking at what you are doing with these texts should not be viewed with utmost suspicion!
Mike

I don't understand your anger at all Mike!

What does Isaiah 42 and 53 has to do with Mathew 12 38-41?

What does opinion of other Muslims have to do with the question I'm asking?
........................................

Having gone through the 'Sign Of Jonah'....Luke 24:37-44

And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them. 44

Jesus had the same body after his 'Ressurection'..He was not 'Ressurected' actually. He felt hungry and ate food.

and Luke 24 44-50

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. 50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

Jesus "suffered" for the TRUTH. He had the near-death experience to keep the Message of God ALIVE..to prove the EXISTANCE OF ONE TRUE GOD....so that everyone should stop transgression and become humble before God and repent.

and.Luke 24 51-53

51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

It's nothing but the "Personal" opinion.

Mark and Luke should have added this to tell a story to the enemies who must be looking for Jesus's body.

Mathew and John didn't say anthing about it...why????????

1-Isn't this the only reason all Christians are expecting his return straight from heaven while he is burried in earth?
2-Isn't it the source of incorporation of this false belief of Second-coming of Jesus into Muslim's,which is against Quran...as those Christians who accepted Islam brought this Myth with them as a majority of Muslims have been ignorant about their own Holy Book?

Silent,

You said in your reply> Why am You being so angry. Well I did not know I was angry. I was only trying to make a point.
Now concerning your statement >What does it have to do with Matthew?
I would say everything. I told you uprightly how Jesus was sinless and how he made purification for sins by dying and rising from the dead and how Jonas trial was a type of death and resurrection. Then you said did Jesus also not die but come back alive after the crucifixion. Well I find it interesting that you agree he hung on a tree. Is that something you believe? I surmise that you are maneuvering suspiciously like a tactician when it comes to avoiding these obvious questions concerning Christ. However , you are not as clever as you think and I understand subterfuge when I see it. It always shows its face when it tries to avoid the truth. Jesus fulfilled the prophecy yet you deny the text. How can you not see that you are making it convenient for yourself to accept one part of Isaiah and reject the other. Its obviously incoherent to state these false premises.
Now concerning the qu’ran how can you expect me to believe that is it without error and yet listen to you state that the new and old testaments are forgeries. Doesn’t this seem odd to you? You were not there when the Qu’ran was apparently delivered yet you somehow by faith, I guess, accept it as without error. That’s fine to have faith in a document like the Qu'ran but if you have no correlation in support from the old and new testament concerning your theology then the text must be suspect and outside the Cannon. You also have no historians supporting the text any earlier that 150-300 years after Muhammad died. To say you believe in a document as without error that has nothing earlier than late dating and then to profess that this Qu'ran is delivered by Allah to Muhammad is without warrant. Sorry, this does not fly with me logically or rationally. If you continue to assert this then you are not being a rational observer.. You cannot justify this new religion which I see clearly as a heresy.
I have not understood your religion completely but I am growing aware of its fallacious implications. You have a considerable way to go with me if you think you can try my patience and convince me by reasoning with me on what the Qu’ran says and then expect me to ignore what you are doing by removing biblical texts that don’t correlate with your Qu’ran.
Recently I ask three questions in your forum . Two I posted and one I asked you about concerning Isiah 53. I am amazed on how blindly you and others are avoiding these questions without regard to the obvious implications that these question pose! You are really not playing fair with anyone who disagrees with your despotic theology.
I also have a bone to pick with you concerning the idea that Muhammad was sinless! This is not scriptural. The new testament clearly states that "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" and the old testament correlates with this by stating, "They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one." *** Psalm 14:1 & 3 - 4 . Again you Qu’ran is more likely to have more corruptions than I first thought.
You cannot easily think that God himself will let you get off changing the word of truth into a lie and then not answering the community of truth seekers who are interested in righly dividing the word of God! Especially by separating yourselves self righteously and brazenly quoting your spurious qu’ran. I am not angry. I am just dissappointed,and yet not surprised!
Mike

Well...I'm not here to 'entertain' you Mike..

You don't have answers too, though you're trying your best to 'play' with 'words' written in you Holy Scriptures.
It seems that there's a lot of 'contradiction' in your beliefs and what's printed in your books.

According to Quran, every human is born SIN-FREE...thanks for your philosophy and the 'thelogy'...you're lost and ask Jesus to find you like he went to find his 'Lost Sheep' after his 'survival'...as he himself claimed , that he was 'appointed' to guide them..

Mathew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Matthew 15:24 - But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mathew 18: 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

S.

Silent,
Just when I think you have had enough of me I get another reply.
Listen lets talk about what you say about contradictions. Take one point at a time with me and I will evaluate it. But you must also evaluate what God was doing for nearly 600 years after the new testament was written with the lives of people who did not have you holy qu'ran! Dose this not strike you as strange! According to your theology millions of people went to hell because your so called prophet WAS NOT AROUND.

Now concerning original sin. I never said I believed in it. In fact I don't.
But it is a matter in keeping with scripture that eventually everyone ends up sinning. Here is the key to understanding the so called mystery of original sin. The bible states this and I quote: 1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Remember two things in this verse as I try to bring out what has been written. 1> You who were dead in trespasses and sins. Now for someone to be dead they would first at some point have been alive. 2> This texts tells us we by nature are children of wrath so therefore we will eventually end up sinning.
It is believed by most people that in fact we are born with a depraved nature. I don’t My thought is that Adam and Eve did not have a weakened nature but rather an innocent and strong nature that made it easier for them to obey but by choice disobeyed God and therefore sinned. They did this without the “so called” depraved nature that we have. That is they became depraved after naturally choosing to disobey. Now it was stated that psalm 51:5 tells us that we were born in sin. This scripture has been mistranslated to build a doctrine of original sin! Let me be clear, sinful choices not inheritance are our problem. If this were not so one might say because I was born this way therefore it is not my fault that I sin. Rather one sins by choice. You see you can't blame anyone but yourself! (See Ezek. 18:20). It is not a matter of semantics it is a matter of theology.. The choice to disobey by our first parents shows openly how we individually fall short of the glory of God in Christ. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God! We decidedly make evil choices as autonomous beings. Christ being made from the seed of Abraham like unto His brothers also had a human nature but did not make sinful choices. Born of a human mother as we are He did not inherit original sin. We too are not born in original sin. Rather from our youth at a young age we choose to sin. The only thing we inherit from the fall of Adam and Eve is a type of death being passed onto all mankind. (See below* More things to ponder) You might find the following of interest and it may clarify what I am trying to say.


This essay addresses a verse commonly used in support of the false doctrine of “Original Sin.”

The doctrine of original sin—the notion that one is born into this world hereditarily totally depraved—is widely believed in the religious world.

For example, the Augsburg Confession of Faith (1530), Lutheranism’s creed, asserted that

“ . . . All men, born according to nature, are born with sin, that is, without the fear of God, without confidence towards God and with concupiscence, and that this original disease or flaw is truly a sin, bringing condemnation and also eternal death to those who are not reborn through baptism and the Holy Spirit” (Article II).

This, of course, explains the practice of infant baptism as advocated by numerous sects.

Likely, the passage that is commonly appealed to in an attempt to justify the concept of original sin is Psalm 51:5.

“Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

Does this verse provide a basis for the doctrine of original sin? Assuredly, it does not. But let us carefully study the matter.

Preliminary Principles
(1) Scripture plainly teaches that sin is not inherited. ”. . . the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father . . .” (Ezek. 18:20); every person is responsible for his own conduct (Rom. 14:12).

(2) Human sinfulness commences in that period of one’s life that is characterized as “youth” (Gen. 8:21; Jer. 3:25).

(3) A child must reach a certain level of maturity before be is able to choose between evil and good (Isa. 7:15, 16).

(4) The qualities of little children are set forth as models for those who would aspire to enter the kingdom (Matt. 18:3; 19:14), and for those already in the church (1 Cor. 14:2O). Surely the Lord was not suggesting that we emulate little, totally corrupt sinners!

(5) The human spirit is not inherited from one’s parents; rather, it is given by God (Eccl. 12:7; Heb. 12:9). Hence, at birth it must be as pure as the source from whence it comes.

Clearly, babies are not born in sin.

Now comes the main point of my reply.
This is the logical Premise concerning Jesus as God:
1> God cannot necessarily sin.
2>The Bible says ALL have sinned and necessarily come short of the glory of God.
3 > Jesus necessarily never sinned
Conclusion : Jesus is necessarily God.
Now you tell me where this premise is wrong.
Mike

1

John 9

1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

How would you explain this ..Mike?

...............

2

Show me the claim of Jesus..that he was sin-free...

According to you your so-called god died for your sins ...because the death is the destiny for sinned souls...then why do you need to repent?

................

3

Also explain this...

Romans 2:12 - For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

.................


4

a-What was the world doing when your so-called-god was not BORN..?

b-What is he doing now?

c-Is Father god worshipping the son-god...or the son-god worshipping the father god?

d-What happened to the holy ghost?

e-Why your god warned about the false prophets on earth in his name, while he was supposed to come down from heaven?

Be SPECIFIC...Mike!

Your continual problem is to interpret literally through a 21st century lens. You pull out scripture and erroneously interpret it out of context to the rest of the bible. Did not Jesus say in Matthew 7:11 (New International Version),
11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! if you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children.. How do you suppose you will fair with other scriptures where Jews accept the idea that they are sinners, like John 8:7 ) 7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. (King James Version

The Jews had a intimate knowledge of sin and that is thoughly implied in their mosaic law. You simply do injustice this this idea to support your heresy.
You for some reason seem to be totally unaware of the consequences of the fall of Adam and eve. They died spiritually and the bible says physical death passed onto them and us including all things associated with death including disease and sickness.. It was therefore assumed by the Hebrews mind that sin is the cause of these things. However again you missed the point of the apostles and Jesus was not saying there is no sin. That would be a great blunder of interpretation seeing the whole of scriptures indicates god sent his son to die for our sins.
And his disciples asked him, saying, Who sinned, this man, or his parents, that he should be born blind?
A strange mixture of truth and error prompted this question. The universal instinct that hails all sorrow and disease as the consequence of sin is correct, all of such things deriving, in the last analysis, from the debacle in Eden; but it is not true that every specific instance of handicap, disease, and sorrow should be invariably ascribed to the individual sin of the sufferer. As Paul stated it, "Death reigned ... even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression" (Romans 5:14).

Without regard to such truth, the apostles were quite ready to blame this man's blindness upon himself, or if not upon him, then upon his parents. It seems ridiculous to us that prenatal sin could be committed; but, as Dummelow noted:

The disciples thought that possibly the man had sinned, either in a previous state of existence (in accordance with the doctrine of transmigration of souls), or more probably as an infant before birth. To the Jews who attributed intelligence to unborn children (Genesis 25:22-26; Luke 1:41), this last was a natural idea. F1

According to Hendriksen, the Jewish Rabbis held that Esau had tried to kill Jacob in the womb, before either was born. F2 This writer rejects the idea that the apostles of Jesus believed either of those monstrous fantasies.

The possibility suggested by the apostles to the effect that the sin of the man's parents might have caused his blindness was certainly not unreasonable; but, even so, if that had been the case, no moral blame would have fallen upon the blind son. The mistake of the apostles here was that of imputing blame where none existed. Both the man and his parents were declared by Jesus to have been guilty of nothing which might have caused the blindness. Therefore, one must hold those apostles guilty of a cruel and unfeeling question. They were like millions today who think that every sufferer and every victim of crime, disease, disaster, or calamity has in some manner DESERVED the evil that came upon him.

Now about Jesus and his sinless state, which I find fantastic that you do not know these verses. You know them. You continue to refuse to open your eyes to them. But I will play along with you.
John 8:46-59 (New International Version)
46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God…...Abraham saw my day; he saw it and was glad."57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"

58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (King James Version)
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I think I have given you enough for you to see that Christ was sinless and God. I have no reason to answer your other questions which have nothing to do with the argument at hand. I see these other questions as an attempt to lead me away from what I initially was endeavoring to prove to you. Thes questions are nothing more than your devious attempts to continue to resist the Spirit of God and his message as it is clearly revealed in the new and old testaments. So you either step up to the plate and admit you are corrupting his word and humble yourself before God and ask Him to forgive you for what you have been doing so that you can be cleansed from your sins. If you do this you will be acceptable to God, otherwise you are lost.
Mike

"who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God…..."

So Jesus explained what it means..."belonging to God" only.

You are playing with your books and yourself...and you have NO ANSWERS for the questions ..you have a NARROWEST approach of thinking leading to "Jesus was a God"..only..

and I say if he was a God......He is a DEAD GOD NOW.

Thanks a lot for your contributions...you need to take rest!

Bye.

4:171 O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.

4:172 The Messiah would never disdain from being a servant of GOD, nor would the closest angels. Those who disdain from worshiping Him, and are too arrogant to submit, He will summon them all before Him.

4:173 As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, He will fully recompense them, and shower them with His grace. As for those who disdain and turn arrogant, He will commit them to painful retribution. They will find no lord beside GOD, nor a savior.

4:174 O people, a proof has come to you from your Lord; we have sent down to you a profound beacon.

4:175 Those who believe in GOD, and hold fast to Him, He will admit them into mercy from Him, and grace, and will guide them to Him in a straight path.

Even they can talked to the Lord Yeshwah face to face, they don't believe HIM and because they lack the belief, who were they to ask for signs who don't believe in the lord.?prophet jonah made a mistake and he was swallowed by a whale, this will be the sign for those who don't believe in holy GOD and keep on asking for signs!

THE MESSIAH AND THE GOD:

[3:45] The angels said, "O Mary, GOD gives you good news: a Word from Him whose name is `The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me.'

[4:172] The Messiah would never disdain from being a servant of GOD, nor would the closest angels. Those who disdain from worshiping Him, and are too arrogant to submit, He will summon them all before Him.

[5:17] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, the son of Mary. Say, "Who could oppose GOD if He willed to annihilate the Messiah, son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone on earth?" To GOD belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth, and everything between them. He creates whatever He wills. GOD is Omnipotent.

[5:72] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers.

[5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate!

[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one GOD. There is no GOD except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.

.............................

JONAH'S PRAYER: 21:87,88

And Yunus, when he went away in wrath, so he thought that We would not straighten him, so he called out among afflictions: There is no god but Thou, glory be to Thee; surely I am of those who make themselves to suffer loss.
So We responded to him and delivered him from the grief and thus do We deliver the believers.

NEWS FLASH: Nothing written in either the Bible or Kuran is in Jesus' "own words".

Sorry to burst your bubble.

.

.