Yoda55
Sometimes people ask the question, “Can we communicate with family members who’ve passed on?” My answer must go back to the Bible – Job 14 (10-13).
This states:
“10 But a man dies and is laid low;
man breathes his last, and where is he?
11 As waters fail from a lake
and a river wastes away and dries up,
12 so a man lies down and rises not again;
till the heavens are no more he will not awake
or be roused out of his sleep.
13 Oh that you would hide me in Sheol,
that you would conceal me until your wrath be past,
that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me!”
One has to ask several questions, in order to approach the problem from the perspective that the Holy Spirit will provide:
1. Is interpretation expected to be literal, or figurative?
2. Is it essential that the interpretation be placed in the context of Old Testament (OT) Job?
3. Are the passages, from the Hebrew perspective, reflecting their limited view of life/death/afterlife (i.e. Sadducee or other such sect)? Or, are they to be viewed from Pharisee belief in afterlife?
The New Testament (NT) is rife with Gospel reference to death being synonymous with sleep – that the person will rise again after a brief rest. This is a foundation of the Christian belief; otherwise Jesus’ teachings and efforts were empty and a charade. But, why would his closest associates perpetuate a falsehood like that, even when faced with death? They obviously believed, and didn’t fear death. So, they never recanted.
We fall back to the fundamental question of voracity of the Bible. We know that in order to be comprehensively True, it must have all its constituent contributors True. No parts can be False, otherwise the entire work is False.
Since the NT states death is equivalent to sleep, there must be corroborative evidence in the OT which points in the same direction. Job 14 reinforces this view. The NT is plain about the concept. It seems appropriate that the OT will be as straight forward. Although the term “sleep” is describing a new perspective (concept) of death, and seems somewhat euphemistic, it’s clear what is meant. Similarly, the OT Job passages are clear. Question 1 is answered as “hybrid” – the term is figurative, but the concept is literal.
The concept, either in ancient Hebrew or in ancient Greek/Aramaic, doesn’t seem to be time-dependent. So, Question 2 is answered “no” or “immaterial”.
Question 3 is answered as “no”, because the Sadducee view saw no life after physical death. They were a minority sect, and not ascendant when Jesus appeared on the scene. The Sanhedrin claimed that Jesus’ notions of immortality were tainted by association/contact with Gentiles. The Greeks and other surrounding pagan civilizations were encouraging a theory of continuum, physical being replaced by spiritual. Jesus’ primary region of teaching was around the periphery of Israel, although he made forays into the heart of Israel. They were concerned with contamination, which their Law was designed to prevent. But, they ignored the weight of prophesy.
[Note: Jesus’ transfiguration, with Moses and Elijah in attendance, points to afterlife. Otherwise, two dead prophets would not be present and interacting with Jesus or his disciples. If these two spirits were not the prophets, then they’d either be angels “play-acting” or demons. Why would God LIE to the disciples? That’s contradictory to the purpose in His plan and to the nature of God (He is Truth). If they were demons, then why would God cooperate with them? And, they’ve recently been thrown out of Heaven for rebelling. Why would they cooperate?]
The OT referred to Sheol (a repository for the dead). But, it isn’t clear whether or not they’re referring to a physical/spiritual separation. Some have claimed that the concept of Soul is the aggregate of mind/body and “breath of God” (which animates the person). They maintain that when the “breath” leaves, the Soul is dead and isn’t reanimated until the end of the world. [Note: They refer to a physical body reincarnation, not spiritual existence.]
Jesus refers to Paradise and Hell. The Bible also refers to levels of Heaven, the highest level being where God (Himself) resides. The Catholic Church holds that Purgatory refers to this Paradise/Hell (subdivided) existence. The two divisions are separated by a boundary that prevents one from crossing between the two. When Jesus was speaking to the thief on the cross, His reference to Paradise was the “saved” shelter of this Purgatory. Jesus bridged the two, permitting those who are to be saved to be protected from the Hell torment. Jesus defeats Satan by taking the punishment of human beings, and robs Satan of the Souls he thought would be under his control. Jesus, being God, rose from the physical death and pointed to the reassurance of human beings about death not being the final condition.
If human Souls are in this Purgatory (Paradise/Hell) region, then are they subject to further interaction with Satan? It appears that at the point of death, the decision about judgment has occurred. In this physical life, the human being has the opportunity to learn the Truth and believe or to reject it. Having made the choice and lived the life, the transition has committed them one way or the other. If the judgment is then determined, then why/how does Satan have any further influence? There is none. The dead are beyond his reach until the resurrection. Only those who are determined lost will be in his arena once again, and only at that time.
So, now, we address our original question. Did Jesus address what mediums/ witches/ psychics will find when they ply their craft? With whom are they communicating? If human beings are confined to Purgatory (as spirits), God/angels are spiritual and free to oversee creation, and Satan/demons are spiritual but confined to earth to constrain infection, then WHO is communicating.
It appears that if angels are not participating with mediums/ witches/ psychics, then only Satan and demons are communicating. That’s playing with FIRE (literally, the stuff of Hell).
Angels do bring communications, but every OT/NT recording is only announcing major events to humans in history as God’s plan unfolds. Demons have no such mission, and are under Satan’s direction to wreak havoc with God’s plan. People who are open to suggestion are equally open to beneficial and detrimental information.
God’s plan is to save human beings from the contamination which Satan initiated. He sent Jesus to be the fulfillment of the Law (the last sacrifice, innocent of guilt and therefore perfect), to give people the opportunity to understand the Truth, and believe what He has done. Satan is jealously opposed to that. And he will take every opportunity to misdirect, obfuscate, and lie to achieve that.
People who look to communicate with passed loved ones are not advised of the Truth, and are playing Russian roulette with their immortal souls. Satan and Demons observe peoples’ lives and can use that information to influence those left behind. Don’t fall for the evil, which will keep you separated from God in perpetuity.
This states:
“10 But a man dies and is laid low;
man breathes his last, and where is he?
11 As waters fail from a lake
and a river wastes away and dries up,
12 so a man lies down and rises not again;
till the heavens are no more he will not awake
or be roused out of his sleep.
13 Oh that you would hide me in Sheol,
that you would conceal me until your wrath be past,
that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me!”
One has to ask several questions, in order to approach the problem from the perspective that the Holy Spirit will provide:
1. Is interpretation expected to be literal, or figurative?
2. Is it essential that the interpretation be placed in the context of Old Testament (OT) Job?
3. Are the passages, from the Hebrew perspective, reflecting their limited view of life/death/afterlife (i.e. Sadducee or other such sect)? Or, are they to be viewed from Pharisee belief in afterlife?
The New Testament (NT) is rife with Gospel reference to death being synonymous with sleep – that the person will rise again after a brief rest. This is a foundation of the Christian belief; otherwise Jesus’ teachings and efforts were empty and a charade. But, why would his closest associates perpetuate a falsehood like that, even when faced with death? They obviously believed, and didn’t fear death. So, they never recanted.
We fall back to the fundamental question of voracity of the Bible. We know that in order to be comprehensively True, it must have all its constituent contributors True. No parts can be False, otherwise the entire work is False.
Since the NT states death is equivalent to sleep, there must be corroborative evidence in the OT which points in the same direction. Job 14 reinforces this view. The NT is plain about the concept. It seems appropriate that the OT will be as straight forward. Although the term “sleep” is describing a new perspective (concept) of death, and seems somewhat euphemistic, it’s clear what is meant. Similarly, the OT Job passages are clear. Question 1 is answered as “hybrid” – the term is figurative, but the concept is literal.
The concept, either in ancient Hebrew or in ancient Greek/Aramaic, doesn’t seem to be time-dependent. So, Question 2 is answered “no” or “immaterial”.
Question 3 is answered as “no”, because the Sadducee view saw no life after physical death. They were a minority sect, and not ascendant when Jesus appeared on the scene. The Sanhedrin claimed that Jesus’ notions of immortality were tainted by association/contact with Gentiles. The Greeks and other surrounding pagan civilizations were encouraging a theory of continuum, physical being replaced by spiritual. Jesus’ primary region of teaching was around the periphery of Israel, although he made forays into the heart of Israel. They were concerned with contamination, which their Law was designed to prevent. But, they ignored the weight of prophesy.
[Note: Jesus’ transfiguration, with Moses and Elijah in attendance, points to afterlife. Otherwise, two dead prophets would not be present and interacting with Jesus or his disciples. If these two spirits were not the prophets, then they’d either be angels “play-acting” or demons. Why would God LIE to the disciples? That’s contradictory to the purpose in His plan and to the nature of God (He is Truth). If they were demons, then why would God cooperate with them? And, they’ve recently been thrown out of Heaven for rebelling. Why would they cooperate?]
The OT referred to Sheol (a repository for the dead). But, it isn’t clear whether or not they’re referring to a physical/spiritual separation. Some have claimed that the concept of Soul is the aggregate of mind/body and “breath of God” (which animates the person). They maintain that when the “breath” leaves, the Soul is dead and isn’t reanimated until the end of the world. [Note: They refer to a physical body reincarnation, not spiritual existence.]
Jesus refers to Paradise and Hell. The Bible also refers to levels of Heaven, the highest level being where God (Himself) resides. The Catholic Church holds that Purgatory refers to this Paradise/Hell (subdivided) existence. The two divisions are separated by a boundary that prevents one from crossing between the two. When Jesus was speaking to the thief on the cross, His reference to Paradise was the “saved” shelter of this Purgatory. Jesus bridged the two, permitting those who are to be saved to be protected from the Hell torment. Jesus defeats Satan by taking the punishment of human beings, and robs Satan of the Souls he thought would be under his control. Jesus, being God, rose from the physical death and pointed to the reassurance of human beings about death not being the final condition.
If human Souls are in this Purgatory (Paradise/Hell) region, then are they subject to further interaction with Satan? It appears that at the point of death, the decision about judgment has occurred. In this physical life, the human being has the opportunity to learn the Truth and believe or to reject it. Having made the choice and lived the life, the transition has committed them one way or the other. If the judgment is then determined, then why/how does Satan have any further influence? There is none. The dead are beyond his reach until the resurrection. Only those who are determined lost will be in his arena once again, and only at that time.
So, now, we address our original question. Did Jesus address what mediums/ witches/ psychics will find when they ply their craft? With whom are they communicating? If human beings are confined to Purgatory (as spirits), God/angels are spiritual and free to oversee creation, and Satan/demons are spiritual but confined to earth to constrain infection, then WHO is communicating.
It appears that if angels are not participating with mediums/ witches/ psychics, then only Satan and demons are communicating. That’s playing with FIRE (literally, the stuff of Hell).
Angels do bring communications, but every OT/NT recording is only announcing major events to humans in history as God’s plan unfolds. Demons have no such mission, and are under Satan’s direction to wreak havoc with God’s plan. People who are open to suggestion are equally open to beneficial and detrimental information.
God’s plan is to save human beings from the contamination which Satan initiated. He sent Jesus to be the fulfillment of the Law (the last sacrifice, innocent of guilt and therefore perfect), to give people the opportunity to understand the Truth, and believe what He has done. Satan is jealously opposed to that. And he will take every opportunity to misdirect, obfuscate, and lie to achieve that.
People who look to communicate with passed loved ones are not advised of the Truth, and are playing Russian roulette with their immortal souls. Satan and Demons observe peoples’ lives and can use that information to influence those left behind. Don’t fall for the evil, which will keep you separated from God in perpetuity.