Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Israel is and always has been the aggressor in this conflict
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Israeli-Palestinian conflict discussion
The stated purpose of zionism was to establish a homeland for the Jewish people in Palestine. There were two problems with this goal: (1) the land was already populated with millions of people, and (2) it is the holy land for 3 of the world's major religion.

The conflict we are witnessing today is the inevitable consequence of these two problems.

Despite being responsible for initiating the conflict, Israel has since engaged in brutal and inhumane oppression of the people who's land it currently occupies.

The world must unite against Israel. We must impose international sanctions and other pressure against it - just as we do for other rouge nations that flagrantly violate international law and subjegate people of a different race.
replied to: jasmith
Replied To:  The stated purpose of zionism was to establish a homeland for the J...
The circumstances that led to the creation of the state of Israel are now irrelevant. Israel's existence is now a reality and we need to deal with it based on it's current actions, not the actions of its founders.

It is now a state under seige and it needs to be protected by the international community.
replied to: crazyman2
Replied To:  The circumstances that led to the creation of the state of Israel a...
Yes, let's deal with it based on its current actions:

The brutal subjegation of the Palestinian people.
Wars of aggression against nations with little or no military.
Persecution of its own Arab citizens in Israel proper.
Numerous human rights violations as recognized by the UN.
replied to: bonnieginter
Replied To:  Yes, let's deal with it based on its current actions: The brutal...
The brutal tactics are intentional. Here is an article from an Israeli newspaper about Israeli tactics in Gaza:
replied to: jasmith
Replied To:  The stated purpose of zionism was to establish a homeland for the J...
The land was occupied by the Arabs who forced the Jews out. Yes, Israel has a right to the land they occupy. And, the Islamic Arab terrorists have a right to be punished for their crimes against humanity.
replied to: korny
Replied To:  The stated purpose of zionism was to establish a homeland for the J...
If the intent behind the military occupation of Palestine is simply to protect Israel from an Arab invasion, then how do you explain the rapidly expanding Israeli settlements? If the Palestinian territories were intended simply to serve as a buffer against an arab invasion, then it obviously makes no sense to populate that land with Israeli citizens.

The truth is that this tired old justification is nothing more than an excuse for their land grab. Israeli jews feel they are entitled to all of Palestine because of ancient history and mythological proverbs.
replied to: yahua
Replied To:  The stated purpose of zionism was to establish a homeland for the J...
1. I believe that the first commandment is: "Thou shall have no other gods before me." Handed down by G-d at Sinai--long before the birth of Jesus. That is G-d the father--not the son.
2. The Romans killed Jesus. The people who lived in Jerusalem 2000 years ago were of mixed heritage. Most were Jewish. The followers of Jesus were Jews. They worshipped in the Temple. At that time, the followers of Jesus considered themselves to be a new branch of Judiaism. It was not until the first century that Christianity began to evolve as a separate religion. Yes, Jesus spoke against a corrupt religious leadership. His intent was to reform the religion in which he participated--not form a new religion.
3. Since Jesus's death, his followers have abandoned his beliefs. Jesus's goal was to replace ritual with love and understanding. For the next 2000 years, his death was used to persecute all who did not accept his words. His final words, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." was fogotten.
4. Had you been present, would you have been a follower, or would you have stayed with what you knew?
5. If a woman arrived today and declared that she was the new messiah, would you believe or would you reject her?
6. It is difficult to judge what you may or may not have done in the situation 2000 years ago. The leadership of the Temple was corrupt. The people were already beginning to challenge their authority. Because the leadership was corrupt, does not mean that all of the believers were. Look at examples of various religious groups today and the corrupt leadership at the local, national and international levels.
7. What has G-d's message been each time that he has tried to reach out to humans? I believe that His primary message is how we are to treat one another. Micha: "What does the Lord require of you? To do Justice, love Mercy and to walk humbly with your G-d."
8. I believe when we figure out how to rebuild the Temple, leave the Mosque of the Dome and build a Church of Temple Mount--then we can look for the arrival of the Messiah. We would have figured out how to achieve the promise of, "The lamb lying down with the lamb".
replied to: jasmith
Replied To:  The stated purpose of zionism was to establish a homeland for the J...
You are correct. There were millions of people in the area--many of whom were Jewish. They never left. Their ancestors had lived in Judea for several millinea. The people of Palestine were not just Arab. The control of the area changed many times over the years. Through the course of time the intermingling and intermarriage of the various people in the region, created a group of semetic people--cousins to one another. Recent research through ancient documents and archeology has begun to find hints of the answer to "What happened to the lost tribes". It has begun to look as if the tribes intermingled with other tribes in the same area-(which is what had happened continuously through war, famine, agreements etc.) We are not talking about separate people we are talking about one family which has not gotten along since the time of their joint ancestor, Abraham.
Check your history. Who attacked whom first? If the Arab countries had been successful in either the 6Days War or the Yom Kippur War, would they have voluntarily returned the conquered land? According to the Balfour Agreement, TransJordan was created as the Palestinian state. So why were the Arab Palestinians excluded. Israel has taken in Jews from many different parts of the world. Why have the Arab countries not accepted the Palestinians? Why did Egypt close its borders? Who is responsible for the problems in the areas in which the Palestinians live? How often has the Israeli government tried to improve these areas, only to have their efforts destroyed in the night by rebel groups? How have the Jews who have lived for thousands of years in Arab controlled countries, treated? Christian missionary groups have had to try to relieve the suffering of these people. I believe in the 5000 year history of this dispute there is blame to be laid on both sides. Obviously, name calling does not lead to success. Perhaps, looking at our comman heritage and our common goals for the future, we will finally be able to solve this problem--which will need give and take on both sides.
replied to: bonnieginter
Replied To:  Yes, let's deal with it based on its current actions: The brutal...
Israel is totally right! What would you do if your own house is risking to be destroyed by rockets?! Wouldn't you react?!
replied to: Stilicho
Replied To:  Israel is totally right! What would you do if your own house is ris...
Good point but what about the people who were there when the British decided to put the "Jews" somewhere just after WWII. Their houses were taken from them and they were shifted by superior forces.

There is no such thing as "totally right". I'm sure the "Palestinians", who are all part of the same Semitic race as the so called "Israelis", see the thing from the opposite point of view. They attack Israel for the same reason.

I have called then "so called" because there are distinctions between Israelis, Jews, Arabs, Palestinians and Muslims. They are all different things.

Since the 6 day war, Israel has been slowly but surely eating away at land which was supposedly to be part of Palestine and using more of the water from the upper Jordon. If Israel wants to make peace and doesn't want rocket attacks, there are better ways of doing it than making rocket attacks.

Think of yourself as an alien observer on the moon with no allegiance. You don't know anything about the Romans, Ottomans, British, Palestinians, Israelis, Jews, Muslims, Arabs etc. Who would you see as the aggressor? Which side has had the most deaths? Who has killed the most people?

I have no allegiance to either side. I couldn't care less who lived in the area between the Jordon River and the Mediteranian. I couln't care less about religion. I couldn't care what "race" someone is. I am like an observer on the moon. The way I see it, Israel can protect itself but so can the West bank, Gaza and Golon.

I see ALL sides in this conflict as stupid, childish, greedy and aggressive. I don't think there will ever be an end to the conflict.
replied to: euc1
Replied To:  Good point but what about the people who were there when the Britis...
Good argumentation.
I largely agree with you. My reply only concerns the last conflict that broke out last year: in my personal opinion Israel was pushed to start the invasion, because a country cannot bear a daily state of terror and threat (with reference to the rocket attacks).

At the moment, unfortunately, there's no solution in sight. But it would be ridiculous to support a side more than the other only in virtue of the "historical" events. At the moment we have a land (the ancient Palestina) populated - as you state - by jews, israelis, arabs and muslims: therefore, a good solution has to take into account the necessities of all these people in relation to the present scenary.
Besides, we cannot penalyzed over 7000000 of current jewish inhabitants only because of past events: many of them are not responsible for what happened 60 or 40 years ago.
replied to: Stilicho
Replied To:  Good argumentation. I largely agree with you. My reply only conce...
"The last conflict that broke out" because "Israel was pushed to start the invasion" by rocket attacks has me a little puzzled. I am sure the Palestinians see the settlements in the occupied territories as a constant invasion of their remaining land by Israel. I see no "recent conflict".

Don't get the idea I am more on the side of the Palestinians though. Their policies and outlook isn't much different from what I see. Both sides want to kick the other side out and have the place to themselves.

Perhaps we should just blame Joshua for invading Jericho although blame doesn't do any good.

I just can't see any side making any sense at all. I can't see any compromise from any side at all and there will be no solution until they all do.

A bleak prospect indeed.
replied to: euc1
Replied To:  "The last conflict that broke out" because "Israel was pushed to st...
How is Israel the only aggressor? According to Dr. Ian Barnes, Head of the Dept. of History at the U. of Derby, England, in 1921, when the area which became Trans-Jordan (now Jordan) was created, Jews were "forbidden from living in or owning property east of the Jordan River. In 1923 when the British ceded the Golan Heights to the French Mandate of Syria, Jews who were living there were expelled and forced to leave their homes and move into the British mandate. The Southern part of the mandate, the Negev Desert (inhabited exclusively by Bedouins) was also barred by the British to Jewish settlement. Due to Arab hostility, which took the form of pogroms regularly conducted against the Jewish population", Jewish immigration was severely restricted by the British while at the same time Arab movement "in and out of the territory was neither restricted or recorded. Arabs continued to enter the area from all over the mid-east attracted by the flourishing economy created by the Zionists. In one generation, the Zionists transformed a barren, under-populated land of mosquito-infested swamp in the north and arid desert in the south into a mixed economy of farmers, fishermen, mechanics and factory workers." Of course others would want to claim the land then. The areas which were forbidden were reclaimed only after the Arabs assembled on Israel's borders with the plan to "drive the Israelis into the sea. This new land was created "against the background of British and Arab hostility to Jewish settlement. The B. gov't favored the Arabs because of the west's need for Arab oil. Israel was created despite the attempts of the Arabs to destroy them. While Arabs lived in Israel, Jews were prohibited from entering the Arabic controlled part of Jerusalem--even now Jews are not allowed on the Temple Mount. When attacked on 9/11, the USA struck back. What should Israel do when attacked?

replied to: jasmith
Replied To:  The stated purpose of zionism was to establish a homeland for the J...
When you don't use accurate and correct facts your arguments are irrelevant.
"the land was populated with millions of people" How many millions?
Jews were expelled from Israel that's a fact.
Jews fled from Europe before and after the Holocaust and had to go somewhere. Some one humane like you probably understands that. Israel as the historic home land was obviously the preferred option.
Israel was recognized by the world as independent Jewish nation. (Humanity was the main reason for that I guess) Yet 5 Arab countries initiated a war against Israel at that same day. And you claim Israel "initiated the conflict" ?!

You say "just as we do for other rouge nations".
What do we do to Iran for hunting and expelling the Baha’i’s, Relocating Arabs from their land for demographic reasons ? What do we do to China for their actions in Tibet? The list is long.

Israel reacts to terrorism which started long before Israel was founded. The Arab leaders create that situation and forces Israel to react in times (like any other nation will do) with unfortunate results.

Your ideas will lead to another Jewish Holocaust and the ironic about it is that you use Humanity as your argument.