Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Israel has no right to exist
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Israeli-Palestinian conflict discussion
Israel is a nation founded on theft. People involved in the zionist movement wanted the land of ancient Israel and simply took it - using violence, politics, and yes - even terrorism.

Israel's actions since it's founding have been equally if not more criminal.

This quote from David Ben-Gurion (first Prime Minister of Israel) puts everything into perspective quite nicely.

"If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"

replied to: aseforlife
Replied To:  Israel is a nation founded on theft. People involved in the zionis...
Yes, I think that in a moment of clarity (and honesty) most Israelis today would concede Ben-Gurion's point.

But let's not forget that colonization of foreign lands is quite common in the history of the West as well.

Case in point:
Just 100 years before the founding of Isreal, the U.S. goverment was actively engaged in brutally subjugating the Native Americans - including taking their land by force. They also used their military superiority to kill countless Native Americans who refused to capitulate.

Our culpability in the past, though, should make us LESS willing to tolerate the immoral and brutal oppression and killing of the Palesintian people.

The only way to absolve us of the sins of our past is to fight to prevent a reoccurrance of these types of abuses anywhere in the world - including Israel.
replied to: zapster
Replied To:  Yes, I think that in a moment of clarity (and honesty) most Israeli...
You should both get a life. You made several historical references. Maybe you just haven't gotten to the part in your history book which describes how the Jews were forced from their homeland by the Romans in 135AD. Israel never stopped being Israel - the jews were forced to leave during oppressive Roman rule, then their descendants came back in the 20th century to reclaim it.
replied to: hanso
Replied To:  You should both get a life. You made several historical references...
There are several problems with your argument. I only have the time and patience to help you with one of them.

Territorial claims have NO legal standing after 2000 years! You must on some level see the absurdity of that argument. If this argument did have a basis in international law, it could be just as easily applied AGAINST Israel. Clearly many different tribes and races have occupied the land now called Israel long before the first jew.

If this was only about 'who got there first' Israel would lose the argument - and their country.
replied to: hanso
Replied To:  You should both get a life. You made several historical references...
Now it is useless to discuss about history. At the moment, Palestina is populated by arabian and jewish people and now this land belongs to both of them. No matter what. The only thing to do is to try to solve the problem of the coexistence and the mutual tolerance.

By the way, Roman rule wasn't oppressive. The ancient Palestina, from Caesar to Vespasian, was a province with many privileges, if compared to other provinces in the East, such as Syria and Egypt, that were under the direct control of roman governors. Consider that Palestina had a king. Don't you remember the reign of Herod the Great? Don't you remember the presence of the king of Jews during Jesus Christ's execution? This means Palestina was partially free: of course it couldn't exercise a free foreign policy. The reasons of Roman "oppressive" control was determined by many useless rebellions, headed by fanatic zealots.
replied to: aseforlife
Replied To:  Israel is a nation founded on theft. People involved in the zionis...
The blessings of Yahweh were given to the israelites and by this virtue, no one can ask question about their importance as a nation of GOD in this world.I am just telling the truth and everyone must consider this fact that Israel is a nation of One Holy GOD!are you willing to fight the GOD of Israel?
replied to: hanso
Replied To:  You should both get a life. You made several historical references...
Isaiah 66:8
Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.

This Prophecy came to pass on May 14, 1948

Also Ezekiel prophecied the Exact year that she would become a nation.

Ezekiel's Prophecy of Israel's Rebirth in 1948
In the year 592 B.C. in the Babylonian Empire a Hebrew slave named Ezekiel was instructed by an angel to:

" Lie on your left side and put the sin of the house of Israel upon yourself. You are to bear their sin for the number of days you lie on your side. I have assigned you the same number of days as the years of their sin. So for 390 days you will bear the sin of the house of Israel. After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the house of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year." (Ezekiel 4:4-6).

At the time of this visitation the Jews were in captivity after being overthrown by the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzer in 606 B.C. This 70 year captivity of the Jews had been prophesied extensively by Isaiah almost 100 years earlier (Isaiah 39:5-7) and (Jeremiah chapt 25&27).

Now the prophecy in Ezekiel chapt 4 predicts a total of 430 years of punishment for the nation of Israel. 70 years of this period of punishment are accounted for in the 70 year Babylonian captivity. That leaves 360 more years of punishment unaccounted for. For centuries biblical scholars could find nowhere in history a period of punishment on Israel that could corresponds to the remaining 360 years of punishment.

In the book of Leviticus, chapt 26, we are told that if the nation of Israel did not hearken (obey) unto the Lord that she would be punished. Then after being punished, if the nation continued to be in rebellion toward God that the punishment would be multiplied by seven:

"If you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant...I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies. If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. "..Leviticus 26: 14-22.

Recently Biblical scholars have applied this Levitical principle of multiplying Israel's punishment by seven to the remaining 360 years of punishment and found a phenomenal discovery. 4

The Biblical prophetic year in the Jewish calendar is 360 days long. This discovery was made by Sir Robert Anderson in his book The Coming Prince. 5 In fact, all ancient calendars of the world, at one time calculated the year as 360 days. So if you multiple the 360 years of remaining punishment x 360 days/year x 7 times punishment (Levitical principle) = 907,200 days. 907,200 days is 2483.8 years (modern Julian calendar years). So, 907,200 days of punishment remained for the nation of Israel after the 70 year Babylonian captivity. The question is where do you begin calculating the remaining 907,200 days?

Servitude of the Nation
There is a Biblical term applied to the nation of Israel called the period of the servitude of the nation. This refers to the period of time that the conquered people of Israel lived through without their own rulership. The people and nation of Israel ceased being a sovereign nation in 606 B.C. And began the first 70 years of servitude at that time. After the 70 year Babylonian captivity they returned to the land but they were ruled over by a succession of empires (Medo-Persian, Greek, Roman) until 70 AD When Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. Then for the next 18 centuries the Israelites were dispersed among the many nations of the world and for the most part were slaves. To the Jewish mind they lost their sovereignty in 606 B.C. with the Babylonian takeover and didn't regain it until the servitude of the nation ended on May 14, 1948 when Israel again became a nation.

The Babylonian captivity began July 25th 606 B.C. and ended July 23rd 537 B.C. This was the very day that the Medo-Persian emperor Cyrus gave the decree that allowed the Jews to return to Israel. If you begin counting the 907,200 days of remaining punishment from July 23rd 537 B.C., the day of Cyrus' decree and the end of the first 70 years of the servitude, and go foreword 907,200 days you get May 14th 1948!!! This was the very day that David Ben Gurion announced to the whole world the official formation of the nation of Israel!!!

Skeptical? Read on.

Desolations of Jerusalem
Another term commonly discussed is the period of the desolations of Jerusalem. This was the period of time prophesied by the prophets in which the city of Jerusalem would be desolate and 'trodden down by the gentiles". Many people have mistakenly believed that this term was the same period as the Servitude of the nation discussed above. However, this period of the desolation's of Jerusalem did not begin in 606 B.C. when Nebuchadnezzer took the first captives. The desolation's of Jerusalem began with the third siege of Jerusalem with the destruction of the city and the temple. The city and the temple were destroyed on August 18th ,587 B.C. in the third siege of Nebuchadnezzer and the Babylonian army. Exactly seventy Hebrew calendar years later (360 days/year) brings us to August 16th, 518 B.C. If we begin calculating the remaining 907,200 days of punishment from that day it brings us to June 7th ,1967. This is the very day Israel recaptured the city of Jerusalem during the Six day war with Egypt, Jordan and Syria!!!

How could Ezekiel have predicted this? He couldn't unless he was instructed by one that lives outside of time. Truly god sees the beginning from the end and is outside of time as we know it!
replied to: swewing
Replied To:  There are several problems with your argument. I only have the tim...
It is not Him that you are arguing with,..but the Word of God.
Ezekiel 37;21-25
I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding,b and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

24“‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.’”

replied to: aseforlife
Replied To:  Israel is a nation founded on theft. People involved in the zionis...
So using your logic the USA, Canada, all South America countries , Australia,New Zeland are all founded on theft.
What about the Bahais and Arab ethnic residence that were expelled and relocated from their land in Iran. is that make Iran a nation founded on theft ?
To me it looks like the jews RETURN to Israel is much more justified.
You should note that throughout the history there were always jews in Israel. Those that were expelled were considered foreigners in all "legal" nations
So assuming you motivation is human where is the place for the jews ?
replied to: aseforlife
Replied To:  Israel is a nation founded on theft. People involved in the zionis...
Until the Palestinians stop their obsession with the destruction of Israel, the situation can only get worse.

The Land of Israel has always , belong to the Jews.
As stated in the Bible.

Yes, jewish people have been scattered all over the world,
but God gave Israel to the Jewish Nation, not to any other group.

So; The land of Israel was NEVER stolen from anyone
replied to: question12345
Replied To:  Until the Palestinians stop their obsession with the destruction of...
It is unwise to decide issues of borders and property ownership based on ancient myths.
replied to: scbrow
Replied To:  It is unwise to decide issues of borders and property ownership bas...
If the Bible is a "Myth", then the Palestinians have NO claim to the Land of Israel.

The Bible is the most widespread book in the World, much more than American History. American history admits that George Washington was seen only by thousands; whereas Jewish History insists that the "Giving of the 10 Commandments" was witnesses by millions. Vast Millions in all Generations testify to the historical traditions which they heard from their fathers, not to mention the vast MILLIONS of Mohamedans and Christians who for many centuries have believed, and still believe today, in this historical fact.
There is not a single Historical tradition in the world,including the latest events of our time,which is as strongly authenticated by written record and by public opinion based on tradition as this fact.But the Jewish Nation are the descendants of the men who saw the ten plagues come upon Egypt, who were liberated from Egyptian slavery, who passed through the open road across the red sea and who saw the Torah being given at Mount Sinai;and these facts were related by their fathers generation to generation,beside having then in writing from the very beginning, without alteration ,to this day.
replied to: question12345
Replied To:  If the Bible is a "Myth", then the Palestinians have NO claim to th...
The Bible is an ancient document, written at a specific time and place, for specific people and by specific people, amid and in relation to events that were happening 2,000 years ago.

It makes as much sense to seek to apply what it says to the present day as doing the same thing with any other ancient text from any other culture of that period.

Your "fact" is not historical fact simply because the Bible said it happened and millions of people saw it.

Your tone suggests someone with a vested interest. Not a very reliable source for unbiased truth, which is the cornerstone of historical facts.
replied to: aseforlife
Replied To:  Israel is a nation founded on theft. People involved in the zionis...
Ummm....NO!! Israel was created after England put the case up for arbitration by other countries who made the decision. It was legal by standards of international law.
No theft, Assforlife.