It is now undeniably evident that this war will never have a satisfactory outcome. Nothing like we were led to believe. Now is the time to start making tough choices.

If we start a gradual pullout now - the Iraqi government will not simply collapse. There will be some tough times for serverl years but I believe the insurgency will gradually diminish. For one thing, the anti-American element of the insurgency will melt away and go home.

I agree completely. Once the US pulls out, the insurgents will see that despite continued the truck bombs and civilian massacres, the government will still be able to govern.

At the moment, many insurgents have a concrete goal: keep up the pressure until the Americans pull out. Once this happens, there will be no well defined goal to unify the insurgents.

Wrong. Once the Americans pull out, the insurgents will be emboldened by their victory. We can't give them exactly what they want and then expect them to back down.

I don't think so, aseforlife. During WWII, it wasn't the successes on the battlefield that unified American forces, it was Pearl Harbor. The insurgents have plenty of those: Abu ghraib, U.S. soldiers raping civilians, etc, etc.

Once we're gone, all of those motivators disappear because the war against America will be over.

Bush and Cheney talk about how if we set a date for withdrawal, the insurgents will simply "wait us out".

That drives me crazy. Seems like they are keeping us pretty damn busy right now. Would they have us believe if we set a withdrawl date the insurgents stop fighting and wait? If so why is that a bad thing????? Momentum is key in these things and a temporary loss of momentum as we hand over control to the Iraqis sounds like pretty good timing.

I just don't get that.

yes. i totally agree. it's time to go. i cant believe its lasted this long

it's a lost cause and everyone but Bush and Cheney get that now. Bush is obviously more concerned about his legacy than the lives of our soldiers. It's depesssing.