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Nick22
Are the seven days god created everything seven actual days or seven ages? And if so, how long is one of the age?
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replied to:  Nick22
silverglass
Replied to:  Are the seven days god created everything seven actual days or...
It all depends on the way you choose to read the text. Literally or Figuratively.
The Nature of Translation

1. How translation occurs

It is important to realize - and most people who have not learned a second language wouldn't know - that there is no such thing as a one-to-one correspondence between languages. You cannot have a word for word translation that is at all readable, because the word order is different, the nature of the grammar is different and even the sense of a word may cover a wider or smaller range than the corresponding English word.

For instance, the word "house" in Hebrew can mean "immediate family" or "a royal dynasty" besides the equivalent English idea of a building where a person dwells. Therefore to have an accurate English translation you cannot simply translate the Hebrew word with "house"; you need to translate it according to which of the possible meanings is intended.

Idioms, likewise, do not translate across directly: for instance the English phrase "I'm sick and tired of apple pie" if translated literally could give a reader in another language the false impression that the individual in question is sleepy and ready to throw up.

Consider the following "literal translation" of the first verse of the Bible, which maintains the Hebrew word order and phrasing and ask yourself if it is easily comprehensible:
In-beginning he-created God (definite direct object) the-heavens and- (definite direct object) the- earth.

But even this is not entirely accurate in a word for word sense, because Hebrew does not have past tense; however, there is no other way to indicate perfect aspect (completed action). However, when one of the prophets makes use of the perfect aspect to show the certainty of the prophesy, to translate it as a past tense can create the false impression that the prophet is speaking of things that have already happened when that is not the case at all! And in front of the single words (they are only one word in Hebrew) "the-heavens" and "the-earth" is the Hebrew word that indicates that what follows is a definite direct object, as you can see, hardly translatable into English at all.

Having said all this, one would imagine that this first verse is a complicated sentence. Not at all. It is remarkably simple. It only becomes difficult if we expect translation to be "literal". It isn't. All translation, by its very nature, is paraphrastic and interpretive.

The way translation happens is as follows. The translator learns a foreign language and learns it well. Learning Hebrew or Greek is just like learning French or Spanish in high school. There is nothing mysterious or special about the ancient languages. Then the translator reads the foreign text and understands it. Having understood it, he or she then puts it into the best English possible.

Law #3: Language
Words should be understood in a literal sense, unless such an interpretation involves a clear contradiction or absurdity.

The Bible is not to be interpreted literally in absolutely every part. Most of the Scriptures are, however, written in a direct literal format but God also used figurative or non-literal language in the Bible. The use of symbolic or figurative language in the Bible does not absolve the student of the Bible from using the literal approach in his study. The use of figurative language also does not give license to the student of the Bible to make all unpleasant or uncomfortable doctrines or dictates of Scripture “figures of speech”. The Bible is not to be spiritualized but studied.

Let us examine some different non-literal language used in the Bible and examples so that we might better recognize and understand the purpose for these figures of speech in God’s Word.

Similes
A simile is a figure of speech that shows comparison with the use of the words “like” and “as”. The purpose of using similes is to represent truth in a graphic form that is familiar to the student of the Scriptures. The Bible abounds with examples of this form of figurative language.

Metaphors
A metaphor is a figure of speech which also shows comparison by asserting one object to be another object without the use of words such as like and as. The following are some examples of this figure of speech found in the Bible.

Allegories
An allegory is an extended metaphor. Allegories are similar to parable in that they teach a truth to Christians while concealing a truth from the world with the main difference being that parables use literal language while allegories use figurative language. An extra-biblical example of allegories would be books such as Pilgrim’s Progress and Holy War authored by John Bunyan which are allegories of the Christian life. The Bible, however, does contain numerous examples of allegories.

Metonymies
A metonymy is a figure of speech in which a word or expression is used in place of another word or expression to which it is related in ether cause or effect.

Examples of metonymies from the Bible are:
➢ Isaiah 22:22—“And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder ...” It is clear from the context of this passage beginning in v. 20 that there are no literal key but authority is the subject of this passage and the metonymy “key of the house” is used to show the effect of having the key of control or authority that is given to Eliakim

➢ Matthew 16:19—“And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven ...” In this metonymy “keys of the kingdom” is not to be taken literally but the phrase is used to show the effect of having keys as it pertains to access. Since the Christians have the Gospel which through faith gives access to the kingdom we have the responsibility of making that kingdom accessible to others.
➢ Luke 16:29—“They have Moses and the prophets ...” Here the terms “Moses and the prophets” is a metonymy that stands for the Word of God which was caused by Moses and the prophets as God used them to pen His words.

Synecdoche
A synecdoche is a figure of speech in which the whole of a thing is put for a part, or the part of a thing is put for the whole.

Some examples from the Bible are as follows:
➢ Genesis 2:16—“Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:” In this synecdoche the whole (tree) is put for the part (fruit).
➢ Matthew 6:11—“Give us this day our daily bread.” Bread, a part, stands for our essential food, the whole, in this synecdoche.
➢ Acts 27:37—“And we were all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.” Here we have the part (soul) set forth for the whole (person) as a synecdoche.

Hyperbole
A hyperbole is a figure of speech which uses exaggeration or overstatement to express an idea.

Examples of hyperboles in the Bible may be seen in the following:
➢ Genesis 22:17—“... thy seeds as the stars ... as the sand which is upon the sea shore ...” This does not mean that Abraham would have the same number of descendents as stars or sand on a sea shore but it does mean that his descendents will be innumerable (unable to be counted).
➢ 2 Chronicles 27:4—“... he built cites in the mountains ... in the forests he built castles ...” King Jotham could not possibly have built cities in every mountain or castles in every forest. This is simply a statement of how widespread his kingdom was.
➢ John 21:25—“... even the world itself could not contain the books ...” This hyperbole is used to show the vast nature of the works of Jesus on earth.

One must be careful when identifying hyperboles in the Bible that one does not limit God in the process. There are no exaggerations when it comes to the works and power of God “for with God nothing shall be impossible” (Luke 1:37). An example of this can be found in 1 Corinthians 2:29—“... Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” This is not a statement exaggerating what God has planned for those that love Him. It is a statement of fact!

Irony
This figure of speech contains censure or ridicule under the cover of praise or a compliment.

The following examples can be found in the Bible:
➢ 1 Kings 22:15—It is clear from the remaining context of this passage and the relationship of the prophet and King Ahab that he is speaking ironically when he promises victory for it is in this battle that Ahab is to meet his death (vs. 16-23).
➢ Job 12:2—In this passage Job uses irony to rebuke his accusing friends who have proven to be miserable comforters in his time of need.
➢ 1 Corinthians 4:10—Paul uses irony in his letter to the Corinthians as he rebukes them for the worldly and fleshly lives they are living by saying they are spiritually superior to the Apostles and himself.

Extreme irony is called sarcasm as in the following passages: 1 Kings 18:27 and Amos 4:4.

Personification
Personification is a figure of speech in which impersonal objects are given personal characteristics.

For example:
➢ Psalm 22:7—“... they (my bones) look and stare upon me.” Bones do not have either eyes or the ability to look and stare.
➢ Psalm 68:16—“Why leap ye, ye high hills?” Hills cannot really leap.
➢ Habakkuk 3:10—“The mountains saw thee, and they trembled: the overflowing of the water passed by: the deep uttered his voice, and lifted up his hands on high.” This passage clearly illustrates personification as these impersonal facets of the creation are portrayed as have the physical attribute of persons.

Euphemisms
A euphemism is an expression which substitutes for another, usually to produce a softening effect.

One example of this in the God’s Word is the euphemism for death when it occurs for a believer it is termed sleep. See: Acts 7:60; 1 Corinthians 15:51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15.

Idioms
An idiom is a figure of speech peculiar to the language and customs of a people.

An example of that in Louisiana is the term Lagniappe. This is an idiom that means a little extra and is peculiar to the state of Louisiana. An example of an idiom in the Bible is the phrase found in Romans 12:20—“Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.” This idiom refers to the practice in New Testament era of carrying coals for staring fires in a container on ones head. To the Western mind this statement produces thoughts of harming ones enemy while in actuality the Bible is teaching the exact opposite that we are to help our enemies.

All of these figures of speech must be taken into account as we read and study the Bible if we are to Rightly Divide the Word of Truth!
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replied to:  silverglass
Nick22
Replied to:  It all depends on the way you choose to read the...
Thankyou silver glass, big help. I've been wondering about interpretations for a good while.
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replied to:  Nick22
mammade
Replied to:  Are the seven days god created everything seven actual days or...
Read 2nd Peter Chapter paying attention to verse 3. You will gain a better understanding if you both 1st Peter and 2nd Peter (there is only 7 chapters in both Books)
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replied to:  silverglass
alitude14a
Replied to:  It all depends on the way you choose to read the...
What religion are you? The Bible was created in seven days. If the Bible says that God created the world in seven dayts, then he did. If you do not immediatly believe this and instead write pages on how it can be interpreted you do not believe in the Bible. Coming to this conclusion, why are you using the Bible as a reference in your paper? This is a fallacie, called "appeal to questionable authority." Oh, and I read the whole paper. It was o.k.
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replied to:  alitude14a
Yoda55
Replied to:  What religion are you? The Bible was created in seven days....
Alitude14a,

You say you've read it, and yet you've missed an important key to whether or not that there is figurative language in it!

A passage states about how time relates (God speaking to man), "...a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like a day..." comparing God's time to man's time. The passage is communicating that (to God) time is meaningless since He is outside of it. And that His time is not the same as man's time (His measure not identical to ours).

Looking through the Bible, I'm sure you noticed a repetitious tendency for certain numbers to come up... yes? They are symbolic in nature and have specific meanings, particularly to the Hebrews whose written language combined an alphabet with a number system. For instance, seven and twelve are signs of completion, just as three-and-half is a sign of incompleteness (see passages regarding Jesus' time for preaching, and the extent of the final tribulation period).

Do you believe that God only exists in the four-dimensional universe with which we are familiar? Sad, if you do... He exceeds all that we know. It's likely that He is n-dimensional (i.e. unknown number), and we only see that which contacts our own four-dimensions.

Oh, and the "...Bible was created in seven days..." statement you made? The New Testament books attributed to the apostle Paul were written over a number of YEARS of his imprisonment to the various new churches established in Greece and elsewhere...

So much for that idea, I guess. Otherwise, you seem to be steaming right along...
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replied to:  Nick22
lucaspa
Replied to:  Are the seven days god created everything seven actual days or...
The authors of Genesis 1 intended to have 7 actual days. you can see this by the "morning and evening" for the first 3 days before there was a sun. That was a way to limit the Hebrew word "yom" to a 24 hour period. You can also see it in Genesis 2:1-3 in the use of "beyom" to refer to the 7th day. "Beyom" in Hebrew also limits the time to a 24 hour day. If the authors had used "yom", one meaning of "yom" is a period, and thus the 7th day could have been very long.

The authors of Genesis did this because they wanted to make a justification for the Sabbath. You can see the justification inserted by the editor of the Torah in Exodus 20:11.

Neither creation story in Genesis 1-3 was EVER meant to be taken as literal history. Both of them were meant to give theological truths, not history.
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replied to:  alitude14a
lucaspa
Replied to:  What religion are you? The Bible was created in seven days....
Where did you get the idea that the BIBLE was created in 7 days?

In Genesis 2:4 the Bible states that the "heavens and earth" were created in a SINGLE day. What took at least 4 days in Genesis 1 is now said to have taken place in a single day.

The idea is not to believe the BIBLE, but to believe in GOD. The Bible is there to help you find God, but if you insist that you have to "believe in the Bible", then you are making the Bible your god. Not good.
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replied to:  lucaspa
Yoda55
Replied to:  Where did you get the idea that the BIBLE was created...
Lucaspa,

You have a problem with the idea that the Bible isn't itself a reflection of God (see John 1). The Word, reflected in the Bible as given to the authors through the action of the Holy Spirit, is what God communicates to us. If God is Truth (and He must adhere to it to be consistent), and the Word is expressed from God, then the Word and God are the same. You cannot seperate one from the other. And, to say that you don't have to believe the Bible, is contradictory to the idea that God and the Bible are related. One has to believe the Bible message in order to approach and understand God.
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replied to:  Nick22
ntlmarino
Replied to:  Are the seven days god created everything seven actual days or...
I believe the seven days represent seven people there ages i suppose would be modernized to a whole day for each
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replied to:  Nick22
Stealthjet
Replied to:  Are the seven days god created everything seven actual days or...
For one day of God in the creation time as we read in the 1st chapter of Genesis is 1000 years. For 1 day of God is equivalent to 1000 years of mankind time measurement. From the fisrt day to six days God is worked and the 7th day God is rested as Sabbath Day. But the age of the earth is billions years old. How could you reconcile that? The creation story in the Bible is re-creation of the earth because the former was desolated/damaged.
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replied to:  Stealthjet
Yoda55
Replied to:  For one day of God in the creation time as we...
Stealthjet,

Let's ask a different question first...using English Standard Version. How was the length of the day determined?

Let's look for a clue...(Genesis 1):
"2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 And God said,'Let there be light,' and there was light.
4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day."

We see that the earth had no form - it was void. What does that mean? It means that there was nothing, no shape. "Void" is the absense of something.

What was "the deep"? It was the emptiness of the universe, without anything in it except a projection of God on it...[Also remember, God is of more dimensions than our poor little universe - which has only four.] "The deep" describes a space where you can look, and look, and look, and (etc.) for as long as you care to do so - and you won't see anything.

So, how long is that "day"? Is it measured by God's standard, or by our standard? Since He's the one providing us the message (and there were no human witnesses), I think it must be His standard.

The fact that "light" was made distinctive from "dark", and nothing else was made during that timeframe, was there an earth? No. Then, time is being related according to God's standard, and there was no reference earth by which to declare the standard for "the day" (in Human terms).

Now, let's look at the passage, about the time comparison of human to God (2 Peter 3, NOT Genesis 1):
"8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

When you were a little kid, how did you count when talking with your friends? Something like this I imagine - "one, two, three, four, five...a gazillion". Was the idea of "gazillion" a REAL number, or was it describing a concept so large that your finite, inexperienced mind couldn't grasp "infinity"? I expect you used it to say a number so large that you didn't feel like counting that high.

What did a number like "a thousand" mean to people in a time period where the usual, everday concepts could be counted on your fingers and toes? If you wanted to make a statement about "HUGE" (without making up a non-number term like "gazillion"), then "a thousand" is more a reasonable term to use.

If you're talking about six "God-days" (which you equate to six-thousand "Human-years"), then you can get the notion that the number of years is not a specific, literal value. Rather, it's a concept of a very long, extended length of time... Your scientific supposition of "millions" or "billions" of "Human-years" is reasonable. The Bible is being FIGURATIVE, to communicate a concept - without being precise to the fraction of a second (which ancient Hebrews couldn't calculate anyway).

The other thing to note in the passage is the phrase "...one day is as a thousand years...". The word "as" is not necessarily saying "equal". If you compare two things, and to equate is not the intent, then you use the word "as" to mean "on the order of". A magnitude similar to an ancient man's concept of what "a day" meant to him, the man could complete a lot of activity in "a day".

Perhaps, then, the idea communicated here is that a lot of activity occurred, between the beginning and the end of that period. If the "thousand" is symbolic and not literal, then "God's day" can cover a tremendous amount of activity within the demarcation He called "a day".

Your comment that the world was being "re-created" has no basis in either science or the Bible as far as I can see. From where did this notion come?
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replied to:  Nick22
Masada007
Replied to:  Are the seven days god created everything seven actual days or...

The Genesis account of Creation is but a huge allegory. The seven days is but the Jewish method to establish the week with the Sabbath as a commandment. And if the seven days represent seven ages, nobody knows of how long was each age for two reasons: First, there is no time in eternity. Being God an Eternal Being, we cannot speak of beginning or of how long was the duration of each day-age. And second, God never ceased creating, which is one of His attributes as the
Creator.

Once Einstein was asked if he believed in God. He answered and said, that all his life was to try to catch God
at His work of creation. Then, he went out to deliver a lecture on the expansion of the universe. In fact, there is a scientific theory that the universe expands. Scientists, still don't know how, though. Could it be that deep down in his heart, Einstein would feed the thought that it could be God at His work of creation? Open to speculations.
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replied to:  Masada007
Yoda55
Replied to:  The Genesis account of Creation is but a huge allegory....
Masada007:

I think that the Moses-generated book on the creation stated that God completed it with the appearance of Man, the day ended, and God rested (on the seventh day).

I'd say that if the account is inspired by God (then reported thru Moses) and is indeed TRUE (because God MUST be TRUE for the whole content of the Tanakh and prophesies to be TRUE), then God was finished with creation - and is not further doing creation work in this universe. Don't you?
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replied to:  Nick22
lucaspa
Replied to:  Are the seven days god created everything seven actual days or...
The authors intended 7 actual days. The reason can be seen in Exodus 20:11. The 7 days of creation is used as a (unnecessary) justification for the Sabbath. If the days are ages, then that doesn't work.

However, this doesn't mean that God actually created in 7 days. It just means what the authors wanted to say.
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replied to:  alitude14a
lucaspa
Replied to:  What religion are you? The Bible was created in seven days....
" The Bible was created in seven days. If the Bible says that God created the world in seven dayts, then he did."

But the Bible also states, in Genesis 2:4, that God created the heavens and earth in ONE day.

Interpretation does not depend on whether you believe a text or not. I can interpret the Quran or Book of Mormon without believing the theology. Interpretation is trying to get at what the authors wanted and meant to say.

Also, there are different ways to "believe" the Bible. I believe Genesis 1 teaches valuable and true theological truths. It does not relate actual history or how God actually created.
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replied to:  Yoda55
lucaspa
Replied to:  Lucaspa, You have a problem with the idea that the...
The Word is JESUS, not the Bible. John 1 is very clear about that. JESUS is a reflection of God (actually is God). The Bible is not the Word and the Bible and God are NOT the same. What you seemingly have done is misinterpreted the Bible and now made the Bible into a god. That is false idol worship.

The Bible tells us ABOUT God. More accurately, it tells us about the personal experiences of some people of God. What the people experienced about God. Yes, the Bible is SOME of what God communicates to us, but not all. After all, Moses didn't have "the Bible message" but he approached and understood God. Right? Or Paul. Paul never met the living Jesus and the NT wasn't written yet. Yet Paul understood God, didn't he?

You confine God to the Bible. Can't you see how erroneous that is? God isn't confined to a book, and His communication isn't confined to a book. He communicates with people personally, one-on-one. It appears that you don't have this communication and are therefore clinging to the Bible like a drowning man clings to a float. But you can have that communication. Instead of praying for things, pray to open yourself to communication from God. Then listen carefully. Listen to that "small still voice".
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replied to:  Yoda55
lucaspa
Replied to:  Masada007: I think that the Moses-generated book on the creation...
No. The reason for the rest on the 7th day was because God told people to rest on the 7th day. You see, Exodus came first. Genesis is backstory. The authors of Genesis 1 (who were not Moses) already had the Ten Commandments. When they wrote about creation they deliberately constructed creation to last 6 days and rest on the 7th. That gave them a rationalization for the sabbath. They shouldn't have needed one; it should have been sufficient that God commanded it. But they made one anyway.

God's other book, Creation itself, tells us that God is still creating. To deny that means accepting atheism -- that what happens "naturally" is without God.
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replied to:  lucaspa
Yoda55
Replied to:  No. The reason for the rest on the 7th day...
The Torah is called the five 'books of Moses'. Your statement hints at the idea that this really meant they were 'the books associated with' Moses. Can you document WHEN these books were purportedly written?

Since Moses was raised in Pharaoh's house, he wasn't illiterate. Moses learned to read and write, and could easily have commited the literature to hard copy. Or, he could have had his brother Aaron translate into Hebrew.

English Standard Version:
"Genesis 2
The Seventh Day, God Rests
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.
3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation."

"Exodus 20
The Ten Commandments
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.'"

New King James Version (NKJV):
"Genesis 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made."

"Exodus 20
The Ten Commandments
11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.'"

Looks like God was resting after all His work. God sanctified it, because anything borne of God is holy (sanctified).

He did it FIRST. HE declared it blessed. His later instructions (commandments) were for mankind to do likewise, follow His example. The number seven has significance, in that it represents 'completeness' related with God.

We're tempted to assign human qualities to God, which is wrong to do (as our limited efforts short-sell His character and abilities). It's quite possible that a single creative event had recursive partial regeneration loops built into it, and doesn't require further creative effort on His part.

Besides, if we're to believe the passages above, then He rested *and the creative work is COMPLETE*. If we say otherwise, then we call Him a liar. Because God caused the inspired words to be commited to written form by a man, the Words are consistent with His intent. IF the books of Genesis and Exodus are to be TRUE, then all you find in them must be piecewise TRUE. [Look to your Boolean *AND* table for confirmation.]
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